Hiring Background and character artist [PAID, CLOSED]

[Viniciuskk]

Hey Lemma artists! Heed my call!

I'm hiring ONE or two to do the following for a freeware game:

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• 36 (So far) different backgrounds.

• 18 (possibly more) total variations from the above BG's.

• 24 characters, two positions and about 3 to 7 expressions for each.

• 6 to 8 total secondary outfits. (includes swimsuit)

• Around 40 CG's with 2 to 3 variations in most of them. (Do not include different positions, only expressions.)

How much will it be? Can you give any discount? How fast can you work? Examples of your skill?

PAYMENT VIA PAYPAL ONLY! You send one picture, I pay you right away for it.


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Here's a small summary of the game:

The VN will be a more realistic Slice of Life set in Japan, in the fictional town of Fuyumachi. By "realistic" I mean that you can really end up dead or get someone else killed (although rare) if you aren't careful. It's mainly a dramatic novel, with bits of romance and comedy.

The main difference in our game from most VN's is that you do not need to date some girl to get your Good Ending, but rather really just achieve your happiness or manage to get Tatsuya (The main character) a path to follow in his life. It has some very complicated branchings (E.g: If you meet only two of the main heroines, the two of them will interact with each other along with the main character. If you meet three, the three will interact with themselves and the main character.) and the choices do not involve "follow X girl", but instead, "go to Y place, or do Z activity".
(I'm not going to ask the player to select a phrase to say to a girl because this isn't a dating sim.)

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An insight about the girls:

Three different branches of the family of The Great Grandfather (that's how people adress him!), the richest man in Japan have their daughters, Mai, Ayumi and Nayuki meet in Fuyumachi, and their destinies can be completely changed by a mid low class teenager called Tatsuya.

That man was wise, and knew his sons would fight over the inheritance if he left most of it to his older child, thus he decided to split it equally, but even so, the brothers never really liked each other, and decided to form their own branches, unwillingly to share surnames with each other. (They were upset at his father's decision too, so none of them kept his surname.)

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For every good ending achieved, a Sphere of Light will emerge from the character whose path was completed. Each sphere is colored differently, according to the emotion that "released" it.

For example, in Ayumi's path, all she ever wanted was to feel that someone cared about her, so her sphere is White, meaning "affection".

Mai wanted to find her soul mate, so her sphere is red.

Nayuki's sphere is also white.

The Old Lady's sphere is Orange, meaning "nostalgia" (She deeply misses her husband, and Tatsuya helps her get over it)

A person can "release" a sphere more than once, and they are created when the person's deepest wish is granted. The light orb is the form of reward from the gratefulness of the other person, and they can be used to grant a wish, so long as the wish does not involve any sinful thoughts.
In Tatsuya's story, Mai's Good Ending is only achieveable if he has completed every other path. All the spheres he collected will be used to save Mai's life when she drowns.

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If the player chooses wisely, upon reaching the Good Ending of a girl's path, an item appears in the main menu. It is what Tatsuya gifts them. (It is possible to reach their good endings without gifting them, but then, they won't show in the menu!)

For Mai, he gives her a plushy yellow bird. Birds are Mai's favorite animals.

For Ayumi, Tatsuya gives her a ring. It only appears in the Main Menu if, at the last decision, the player chooses to propose marriage to Ayumi, rather than a relationship.

For Nayuki, he makes a rather big origami heart, cuts it in half and puts a metallic chain on it, creating a necklace. He then, writes Nayuki on one side, and gives it to her. When Tatsuya is recovering in the hospital after being shot by a drug dealer (a guy from Nayuki's past), she asks him where is the other half, and he says that it's already glued on the other side, telling her that she had always carried his whole heart with her all that time.

There is also Maori's Arc (Second unlockable playable character, and a girl! But no, no GxG. She already has a boyfriend ), but that's enough spoilers for now

[CheeryMoya]

Whoa whoa whoa, you want one person to do all of those things? Even if you are paying, that's a lot for a single artist. I think you should state your budget (saying "I got the cash!" does not say the exact amount. What may be sufficient payment for a lower-tier artist won't be enough for a higher-tier one) as well as a style you're looking for, unless you're open to any. Do you have a deadline? How much of the script has been written? In fact, what is this game that they need to draw for?

[Viniciuskk]

Yeah, I want just one person to do the job. I know it might sound strange, but I don't want to mix up art styles in my game.

I don't mind how much I will be spending in this project. (I'm prepared to spend even up to $6500)

No deadlines. You can work on your own pace.

The script is 55% done, and those 55% are already programmed.

Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Homeroom ... 4116894531

(Synopsys now included in the thread.)

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!

[100puro]

Can I give you a suggestion? Though I understand you want to have a consistent art style for the game.. I think you could split up a background artist and a character artist at least. The techniques that go into both are pretty different and it shouldn't be hard to find a bg artist and character artist who's styles fit together. Also, I don't think many people would have the time to take up such a large endeavor of doing all the tasks you want them to do.

Chances are you're not going to have many takers for this project especially those that are "higher-tier" because they probably have other projects or this project would just simply take too long for the quality of work they provide.

[Viniciuskk]

Hmm... Okay, I might hire someone to do sprites or BG's separately if he/she is highly skilled at that particular area.

[fioricca]

Just a quick calculation of the amount of time an artist would need to pour into this project based on your brief, and assuming the artist is an experienced artist that works like a machine:

36 backgrounds at 10 hours/bg: 36 x 10 = 360 hours
18 variations at 0.5 hours/adjustment: 0.5 x 18 = 9 hours
24 characters, 2 poses at 5 hours/character: 48 x 5 = 240 hours
8 outfits at 2 hours/outfit: 48 x 8 x 2 = 768 hours
40 CGs at 8 hours/CG, including variations: 40 x 8 = 320 hours
Total amount of time needed: 360 + 9 + 240 + 768 + 320 = 1697 hours
Assuming an artist works 12 hours a day (full time, everyday): 1697 / 12 = 141.42 days (4.71 months)

Take note that this estimation is highly optimistic. Taking into account the amount of time needed to communicate with you, to make adjustments, and some leeway for other things, a more reasonable amount of time needed can be up to around 2000 hours for everything.

I'm not sure how you're going to be able to find an artist that's willing to work for 1700 hours for $6500 because 6500/1700 = $3.82/hour

but good luck...?

[Viniciuskk]

There are plenty of good people here on Lemma that charge between $ 20 to $ 50 for a BG, which would mean even as low as $2 per hour. But still, you're right. That's a very low amount of money per hour. I guess the people I found are just hobbyists, but even so, their skill level is the same as yours.



I don't expect this game to be done by at least the beggining of 2014. It's... VERY large ... Not only on art, but also on word count.

EDIT: $100 for a bg...? You're surely the most expensive guy I've found here o.O

...Actually, come to think of it. Even $10/hour isn't really all that much... *throws away all my current art skills*

[Auro-Cyanide]

There are plenty of good people here on Lemma that charge between $ 20 to $ 50 for a BG, which would mean even as low as $2 per hour.

I would recommend that you go and talk to these artists and get their opinion on that much work and whether they would be willing to sign up for that long. It doesn't hurt to ask

In my opinion, it's far too much work for far too little money. The sheer amount of time and effort that would be required to see this through would be a cost in and of itself. The only way around the cost is to find someone who is emotionally invested in the project itself and you as a person, which isn't impossible, but certainly isn't easy.

On the other hand, you could try pitching on DA, since there are more artists. I would recommend being careful as generally artists are not very good at long term work (especially since you are looking at least a year) but you might be able to get some cost estimations. http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers/

You could also look at cutting down the assets. A good game developer knows how to make the best out of their budget without asking someone to sacrifice their time to that degree.

On general estimates:

Sprites: $35 for base + $20 for pose + $30 (x2) for outfits = $115 per sprite
Background: $60+
CGs= $60+

So you are looking at $7320 and I am being incredibly cheap in my estimates. Probably closer to $10,000 when all is said and done. Plus, you would be taking extreme risks with artists leaving because of the amount of work and the length of time which would ruin any consistency you were thinking about.

What I REALLY suggest is doing something smaller and getting a handle on artists and their costs so you can be in a more informed position when you try and tackle a larger game

Good luck!

[Viniciuskk]

Oh, I already did contact them via PM. I just created this thread to see if there were someone yet unkown out there.

I found two people a couple months who make high definition 3D backgrounds for $20 and $ 25, but I didn't know that their skill would actually have such value. Every art thread I checked here on Lemma had amazing art for very different prices, ranging between $20 to $ 70, even though they were all equally skilled.

[nyaatrap]

They are students or hobbyists who have other jobs in their real life. They only can spend limited time. Unless you hire a full time professional (who requires double amount of budget), it would take several years.

[Auro-Cyanide]

I found two people a couple months who make high definition 3D backgrounds for $20 and $ 25, but I didn't know that their skill would actually have such value. Every art thread I checked here on Lemma had amazing art for very different prices, ranging between $20 to $ 70, even though they were all equally skilled.

People value their time differently for many reasons People with cheaper costs either can work faster, do less detail, use a quicker technique, live in a cheaper country or are only doing it as a hobby and not as a job.

When making commissions, it's very important to pick people that have shown the skills you need (for example, you would want to make sure a BG artist can do interiors, exteriors, natural and manmade) and that they have a track record and are in a position to stick with you. For instance, a hobby artist is usually cheaper but they are going to be much slower and less reliable than someone who does commissions as their job. If you want to avoid getting burnt by an artist pulling out, then do your background checks

Even then, you can't make them stay if life puts them in a position that they can no longer work, which is the risk with longer projects.

Using myself as an example, I do all the art for our projects, and on a larger one I have been working on it for over 2 years because I have a day job that allows me to work for free. If I didn't have my job, I would have much more time, but I would also have to charge heavily for my time.

[CheeryMoya]

I didn't know that their skill would actually have such value.

Okay, I'm super pissed right now. Really? Really? Are you devaluing the skill of an artist? Are you deliberately ridiculing someone's hard work and years of toil? Do you realize just how damn disrespectful that was?

That statement alone already shows possible applicants how much you respect them: you don't. Artists are not machines or tools, they are people who may want to help your game be great. Money or not, no sane artist will work with you as long as you keep up this attitude. You're only making the online undercharging problem worse by saying these sorts of things.

[Viniciuskk]

Well, I'm sorry that I wasn't born knowing that art was in fact more expensive...? Or that it took 10 hours to make a background image...? I had seen countless threads of awesome artists charging 20-50 prices, so I assumed that was the base price. >.>

Don't just put words into my mouth saying that I don't give them any value.

Oh, yes, and I'm sorry. That TOTALLY wasn't my intention... I'm not some kind of evil fiend q_q

Even then, you can't make them stay if life puts them in a position that they can no longer work, which is the risk with longer projects.

I'm definitely keeping this in mind ~~

[fioricca]

There are plenty of good people here on Lemma that charge between $ 20 to $ 50 for a BG, which would mean even as low as $2 per hour. But still, you're right. That's a very low amount of money per hour. I guess the people I found are just hobbyists, but even so, their skill level is the same as yours.



I don't expect this game to be done by at least the beggining of 2014. It's... VERY large ... Not only on art, but also on word count.

EDIT: $100 for a bg...? You're surely the most expensive guy I've found here o.O

...Actually, come to think of it. Even $10/hour isn't really all that much... *throws alway all my current art skills*

Oh goodness haha thank you for the positive attitude that you're showing in relation to this. I have to admit that I was quite shocked and upset at first when you thought that my skills aren't worth the prices I set at all, but when I understood that it's because you're not aware of how pricing works...

As Auro has explained, most hobbyist artists who underprice their skills do so for a variety of reasons; it might be because they're still in school/has a day job, it might be because they live in places with lower standards of living. But in no way do the prices reflect their skill level. I understand that as a developer, you want to trim down on costs, especially when the game that you're releasing is a freeware; but each time you try to cut the wages of anyone -- be it artists, programmers, writers, musicians, sound managers, or graphic artists -- you are essentially devaluing their work. The average hourly pay of a cashier at McDonalds is about $7.69/hour in the US (according to Google). Do you seriously mean that the beautiful artworks artists create painstakingly with love and effort are worth not even a third of that? I think that's the underlying message that users in this forum aren't comfortable with.

I love supporting all kinds of games, so by no means am I trying to insinuate that your project is doomed to failure. But $6500 is still a hefty sum of money. Going by the base price of $10/hour, you can net about 650 hours of work from someone, possibly more with discounts. Perhaps you'd like to review the resources that you need and trim down on what's not necessary? Do you really need that many costumes? Aren't there backgrounds/locations that you can re-use as well? How can you maximise the use of your resources? Sometimes, having more resources doesn't mean that you'll get a better game. You might also want to take up Auro's suggestions as she has provided excellent ones.

Good luck!

[Blue Lemma]

*risks jumping into the fray*

From my general experiences commissioning and working with a ton of artists:

About the original post:
This is unlikely to happen with only one or two artists, unless:
* you're going to accept shoddy art
* you're going to hire someone who does this full-time professionally (in which case be prepared to pay professional rates)
* you're willing to wait years (and the artist actually sticks around that long)
and/or
* you're looking to get snookered by a tracer/art thief

I won't say it's impossible, but your odds don't look good.

I find myself saying this a lot in relation to art, but... basically listen to Auro

About prices:
Overall, you're worth whatever someone is willing to pay you. If the most anyone will pay you is $1/hour, you're worth $1/hour. If the most anyone will pay you is $500/hour, you're worth $500/hour. This is why teachers make 5-figure incomes and pro-baseball players can make 7-figures.

There is a decent market for decent reliable artists (definitely more than $2-3/hour), so this commission would be worth a truckload of money if you want a good artist.

About the $100 background thing: Honestly, that kind of threw me when I read it in that other thread. If I'm paying $100 for a background, it better be a dang good background