All ages F/SN?

[Adorya]

We are not talking about best in opinion, but "best sell". Currently the ever best seller VN is Fate/Hollow Ataraxia with 250 000 copy sold and a few weeks in the single music in the jpop 5 top chart japan (2006) . It has graphic+, storyline+ and gameplay+ (with the mini games).
Even Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua plummet at 150 000 according to Canned Dogs, that would only mean that it lack gameplay

Note that FSN is still a big exception along with the top VN sellers (Little Witche, Leaf...). It can also be noted that big gameplayable epic game with full ero scene like Rance 7 or Baldr series don't get a good selling score in general public scene because...they don't move to this area (even though Duel Savior did on ps2 but was not a significant good hit -cloning Guardian Heroes clone doesn't make you a killer app).

[akizakura]

Lacks in gameplay? I thought F/SN Realta Nua was just a consumer port with the H-scenes replaced. So it's very different from the original in terms of gameplay?

I'll have to check it out anyway.

[GLACIER]

150,000 copies is an incredible launch for a PS2 VN - far more impressive than any other title I can think of. Not even To Heart 2, Higurashi, or Utawarerumono came close.

Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is only a fan disc. However, it sold very well because of the immense and lasting popularity of F/SN (which is Japan's top-selling eroge).

[Adorya]

I didn't mean that the original FSN had some sort of gameplay (beside the small bonus stuff as the encyclopedia, the character stats and the Tiger stamps scenes), but to compare with FSHA, the mini games (raid to miss loli's castle, the quizz and hanafuda) imo where the 50k difference.
I don't think FSHA can be considered as a fan disc but more as a fun disc, because the only fan input was the Wallpaper tribute and maybe some easter joke from fan in some game sequences.

The main differences between the pc and ps2 version for FSN are the full voice dubbing, the HCG switch to normal CG and the 3 new openings, though deluxe edition included a psp hanafuda remake.

In the general public scene, the most successfull VN is imo Sakura Teisen, even if the license has a bit vanished now, still 5 installments, anime, movies, goodies, idols concert it's the most popular that combine all elements.

[Adorya]

Well, guess I was right about the number, according to last Canned Dogs news :

According to VGChartz, Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua sold another 22,000 copies for its 2nd week, which is pretty good for a galge. But it also means that Fate/Stay Night probably has no chance of breaking the big 200,000 barrier for total sales.

For comparison, these are the galge that managed to break 200,000 in the past, according to Famitsu’s numbers:

01 Sakura Taisen 2 (SS) 509,000 (1998)
02 Tokimeki Memorial forever with you (PS) 474,000 (1995)
03 Tokimeki Memorial forever with you (SS) 374,000 (1996)
04 Sakura Taisen (SS) 359,000 (1996)
05 Nonomura byouin no hitobito (SS) 327,000 (1996)
06 Double cast (PS) 313,000 (1998)
07 Sakura Taisen 3 (DC) 304,000 (2001)
08 Tokimeki Memorial 2 (PS) 295,000 (1999)
09 Sakura Taisen 4 (DC) 257,000 (2002)
10 Kakyuusei (SS) 253,000 (1997)
11 Sakura Taisen (PS2) 231,000 (2003)
12 Sentimental Graffiti (SS) 227,000 (1998)
13 Doukyuusei (SS) 222,000 (1996)

For 2007, Higurashi no naku koro ni released on the PS2 this year sold 100,000 copies and many fans didn’t like it, IDOLM@STER on the Xbox360 sold 36,000 copies and everybody touched some boobs, and the ever laughable Tomoyo After PS2 edition sold less than 5,000 copies. It’s pretty obvious the galge industry isn’t doing very well in recent years, which is why KID died.

[Septimus]

I agree with mikey to some extent. It feels quite lame when a VN uses pathetic excuses just to squeeze in some erotic content. The first thing that comes to mind is F/SN's "mana transfer".

As such I won't be putting any in the VN I'm writing at the moment simply because I know that it's not necessary. I'm sorry if some people are disappointed by that but it's the choice that I've made and I'm sticking by it.

I hope that future VN creators don't feel pressured to put erotic scenes in their games when they're not needed. That's just my $0.02.

[DaFool]

I agree with mikey to some extent. It feels quite lame when a VN uses pathetic excuses just to squeeze in some erotic content. The first thing that comes to mind is F/SN's "mana transfer".

As such I won't be putting any in the VN I'm writing at the moment simply because I know that it's not necessary. I'm sorry if some people are disappointed by that but it's the choice that I've made and I'm sticking by it.

I hope that future VN creators don't feel pressured to put erotic scenes in their games when they're not needed. That's just my $0.02.

The irony is if you look at the amateur VN scene, not just OELVN but even the JP ones... such as the listings of short doujin VNs that get translated by insani / dejavu... few to none are ero (exceptions such as tsukihime and the dlsite type of products) It's the commercial ones that tend to be ero.

So, by some weird twist of logic, it might actually be more unique to be an amateur creator and have ero. It's like being in a room with 'unique and artistic individuals', all of whom have funky hairstyles and clothes... in that case, being dressed up in a business suit would make you the unique individual.

Of course, I'm not saying try to be unique for the heck of it, but whatever really was your vision, more power to you. I think ero scenes are like battle engines. Most games just insert them so look kinda out of place and disrupt the continuity of the story. But if the story is designed to integrate the battle engine and the ero -- but not just being excuses to have more battles or just have more sex -- it could work well.

[Enerccio]

F/SN must be eroge... there is no other way. PS2 version which is without eroge is probably bad.
In Type-moon eroge was and will be important part of their games... each time they use it for story (just like in Tsukihime second part and Fate route)

[GLACIER]

F/SN must be eroge... there is no other way. PS2 version which is without eroge is probably bad.
In Type-moon eroge was and will be important part of their games... each time they use it for story (just like in Tsukihime second part and Fate route)

There's nowhere in the Fate route where explicit scenes are necessary.

Mana recharge is indeed a justification to throw in the first sex scene, whereas the second could be easily omitted via fade out.

[Misuzu]

Fate must be eroge by market standards. Unless you are a huge behemoth... with a LONG history of games that had shittyly integrated eroscenes and a writer who couldn't write ero-scenes worth his life *cough cough KEY cough cough*, then your going to be hard pressed to release a game without ero in it. Type Moon is a behemoth of an eroge producer, but they don't have the long history yet, but more importantly, they don't have the history of really bad eroscenes and stating that they didn't particularly care for ero scenes.

Plus, from a marketing perspective, its kinda smart for Type Moon to release their games as 18+ originally. They know their games will sell and be popular, so by releases 18+, they target one market that is fairly rabid, then they come back and release all ages with added features so that they can target the rabid 18+ fans in addition to more general fans on the second round.

Finally... there are a lot of doujin with ero in them. The proportion is nowhere near the amount in the commercial scene, but since its not mandatory in the doujin scene, obviously there will be a lot less ero titles. Make no mistake though, there are a lot of ero Japanese doujin out there. Basing off insani's releases would be skewed as insani did not like H-eroge so they did not independently translate anything that contained H within it.

F/sn did need eroge, but not for the reasons Enerccio mentioned =P, because I agree, it was horrifically forced into F/sn. But market pressures and extra potential profits is an excellent reason to put eroge into a game. Oh... and Enerccio, Realta Nua was WAY better then F/sn because they chopped out the misplaced eroscenes, cleaned up the script a whole bunch, added a shitload more character artwork, added extra CGs, and an extra bit to one scenario =P. So yes, in every way besides ero, it was better the F/sn.

[GLACIER]

Realta Nua was WAY better then F/sn because they chopped out the misplaced eroscenes, cleaned up the script a whole bunch, added a shitload more character artwork, added extra CGs, and an extra bit to one scenario =P.

Sounds good to me, although it'd take a hefty rewrite to fix the script. F/SN is rare in that the game universe, characters, and story ideas are so strong that the game remains engrossing despite horrible writing.

[Enerccio]

Oh... and Enerccio, Realta Nua was WAY better then F/sn because they chopped out the misplaced eroscenes, cleaned up the script a whole bunch, added a shitload more character artwork, added extra CGs, and an extra bit to one scenario =P. So yes, in every way besides ero, it was better the F/sn.

Can't judge, I don't own playstation 2 so ^^

But still.... I liked fate with eroge (personal taste)

[akizakura]

Interestingly enough, I recently read something from Kinoko Nasu in which he wrote that he writes adult stories, not stories to which he later adds adult content - in other words, his games are written to contain ero content. I think that was from AnimeSuki if anyone's interested. I do agree after playing through the translated Fate route that the ero content definitely seems tacked on and it's still not really my taste, but it makes eroge fans happy so meh.

My brother just got Realta Nua though so I'll probably just thief his copy and finish UBW and HF that way.

Thanks everyone for your input! ^^