Some trouble in doing arts...

[chisa-chan]

I am totally amateur at inking. I wonder which size is the best for the outline, inner line, and the details? I use drawing pen in this case.

Thanks for the help.

[F.I.A]

I am not that good at inking either, but I will say what I do.

I got inking pens of different thickness, from 0.5mm to 0.1mm. Normally, I use 0.3 for outer lines, 0.2 for inner and later 0.1 for detail.

[NOTE: Keep in mind with the change in the pen thickness. When use for a long time, the tip will start to soften, making it harder to keep a perfect size. That means buying new pens in general.

[Jake]

Also bear in mind that if you're using technical pens (or any roller/felt nib drawing pens) you're going to get a uniform line width whatever you do (or a really scruffy one, if you just drag it lightly across the page) so it's a lot of effort to try and emulate the typical manga inking with varying line widths on the same line.

So really, don't get disheartened if you can't do it, because it's not at all easy. Really, the only good way to get that effect is to use a fountain/dip pen with a drawing nib, and that's messy, and a lot of hassle.

[Hime]

I'm not a master at inking either, but I use 0.1mm for lines in general and 0.03mm for details or just to get a thin line. At times, I use 0.03mm for everything. And not so very often, I might use 0.3mm for a line or two. Remember to get water-proof pens just in case you'll be colouring with watercolour, or if you're using Copics, I recommend that you get the copic-proof pens from Copic, because just water-proof won't be enough anymore and the lineart will become messy.

[DaFool]

Hmmm...never really thought nor used different line widths seriously.

The ones I see on manga with the very gradual change in linewidth...wow that must have taken a lot of painstaking effort.

Since things already take way too long even while cutting corners, if ever I do ink I just use Pen in photoshop set to 3-pixel linewidth. Using fine lines even for the outline doesn't look too bad, except it becomes a bit of trouble when the character has solid features such as thick eyebrows, etc. So I just try to touch it up with Brush and *try* to get smoothly varying line thickness.

[Jake]

if you're using Copics, I recommend that you get the copic-proof pens from Copic, because just water-proof won't be enough anymore and the lineart will become messy.

Incidentally, the reason for this is that Copic - like many other art marker manufacturers, such as Pantone Trias or Deleter's Neopiko pens - use alcohol as the solvent in their inks, probably because it has a significantly lower boiling point than water so it evaporates (and thus the ink dries) a lot quicker. Alcohol can dissolve a lot of things that water can't (which is why it's useful for cleaning the glue residue left behind from stickers, for example) so it will dissolve some 'waterproof' inks and bleed them a little.

(I'm pretty sure India ink is safe from this, if you have the option of drawing in that - it's what most technical pens (the non-disposable kind) were loaded with last time I used any of those, and what a lot of dip-pen users draw in for this reason.)

So really, what you need to look for isn't necessarily 'copic-proof' pens or inks, but 'alcohol-proof' pens/inks.

The ones I see on manga with the very gradual change in linewidth...wow that must have taken a lot of painstaking effort.

If you were to do it with a fixed-width tool like a disposable tech. pen, then yes. Probably far more effort than it's worth.

On the other hand, if you were to do it with a dip pen or a tablet stylus, it's just a case of practice - the more you do it, the easier it is to gradually reduce the pressure as you move from one end of the line to the other. I find this is one place drawing 'from the arm' rather than 'from the wrist' helps, 'cause you can use your whole arm to provide a more smooth and gradual motion.

(Incidentally, my favourite varying-line inking these days is a combination of Painter 9's 'Thick-Thin Pen 3' and Wacom's stroke nib; it behaves to me just like my favourite drawing nib, but without the cleaning up and the smudging and the pile of ink-dabbed tissues and the hassle of erasing the pencil lines afterwards...

[chisa-chan]

The ones I see on manga with the very gradual change in linewidth...wow that must have taken a lot of painstaking effort.

Yes, it is. I read about it in the tutorial book I use, which the writer calls as...thickness dimension (if I was right). It takes more effort, and you might need zoomed image (around 200%) to do this.

Anyway, thanks for the help. Seems 0.1mm to 0.3mm is worth.

[mrsulu]

The dip-pen with metal nibs is actually really cool if you can afford the time to clean up afterwards. Every time you dip it's like using a brand-new pen---thick, clean line, no blotches.

Brushes give a really nice, wavy line with varying sizes, although you need to practice a lot to get good with them. You'll also become an equipment snob, since the shape of your brush tip matters a lot.

In Scott McCloud's "Making Comics", a book I highly recommend, he actually asks dozens of comic-makers what they use to ink, and the answers are all over the map. Some people talk big about Copic, other people fight about what the best brushes from Europe are, and the guy who makes Hellboy admits that he uses two or three cheapo Microns and a Sharpie.

My current favorites are:

1) Copic technical pens, 0.8 for thick lines, 0.5 for medium, 0.25 for detail work, plus a brush-tip Copic marker for fills. These look really nice, especially scanned.

2) A cheap wooden pen with a zebra "manga" metal nib when I want something to look scratchy and/or I'm not planning to scan it, or

3) sometimes I draw with an HB pencil, then "ink" with a 9B pencil (super-soft---thick dark lines). It looks really natural and you can still erase if you make a mistake!

Paper matters, too. Typing paper sucks unless you're inking with a ball point pen. I use Canson notebooks, but your mileage may vary.

Basically, go to a good art store and ask someone for a recommendation for paper and pens. If you're at a good shop, the folks behind the counter have inevitably tried everything themselves.