''Gameplay'' in Visual Novels

[maetropa]

Something that I've noticed is that some people tend to implement gameplay into their visual novels.

What I've noticed is four types>
RPG Visual Novels, with monster battling and stats (think winterwolves Loren Amazon Princess and their older Planet Stronghold).
Stat Raising Visual Novels, with an advanced stat system (most visual novels have stats for affection or corruption, but those are usually behind the scenes, compared to games like Tokimeki Memorial and games with systems based off of them)
Minigame Visual Novels, with (duh) minigames. I don't see these as often, but some good examples would be Little Busters, Vera Blanc and Fatal Hearts.
Pure Visual Novels, with minimal points systems to track choices and to focus on the story. The majority of Visual Novels fit here.

I don't mind having gameplay, though sometimes it feels as if it was added in just to pad it out. What do you guys think about added gameplay in visual novels? Obviously, it depends on the story and how well it goes, but on a whole, what kind do you like/dislike and do you tend to look over games with or without it?

[SundownKid]

I think gameplay in VN's can expand the target audience greatly. A lot of people come to expect a high level of interactivity from digital programs, after all. It doesn't have to be a full-on RPG or stat raiser though, some limited adventure gameplay and minor puzzle solving can make it more engaging.

[Asceai]

It seems to me that there are two successful approaches for adding gameplay without people hating it. One is to make your VN about the gameplay; the other is to make it as minimal and non-irritating as possible.

If you can make the gameplay awesome, go ahead and design a game around it, then add VN elements to make it even better. The main thing here is that the gameplay is the game and you're using VN elements to add story to it. This is fine, but it means your characters, plot etc. all must be aligned around this vision to make it work. This could be an RPG, a dating sim, a point-and-click adventure, a platform game or anything else.

The other way is to implement unobtrusive gameplay. Rewrite had that 'mappy' system which was minigame-ish and worked fairly well, because it was such a minimal part of the game and could be skipped entirely if you weren't going after quests and the secret end. It's been a while since I played Fatal Hearts but I remember feeling rather irritated with the minigames while I was trying to clear out all the endings. (I recall a hint system. I can't recall if it let you just bypass the puzzles; it may have done. I still remember feeling irritated though =P)

The trick here is to accommodate all players. One person's fun little minigame diversion is an annoying distraction from the story to someone else - and this goes double if it's something like a puzzle that someone could conceivably just not 'get' and end up wasting a huge amount of time on while not having fun at all. In the first case, it's unlikely that someone that hates RPGs is going to play your RPG VN, or that someone that hates dating sims will play your dating sim, so you're likely to only get players that are already at least open to that kind of gameplay. The only thing that remains is making the gameplay good. In the latter case, I feel like the best way is to think carefully about whether this particular minigame adds value, and if you determine it does, think about letting the player skip it (and possibly miss out on some optional extras, but they should still be able to access the core story).

[gekiganwing]

What do you guys think about added gameplay in visual novels? Obviously, it depends on the story and how well it goes, but on a whole, what kind do you like/dislike and do you tend to look over games with or without it?

Gameplay will attract me to a project. But if I find the gameplay to be dull, frustrating, or distracting, then I might not finish the VN.

Overall, I'd say you will benefit by A) playing a variety of games first, B) thinking about what you want, and C) playtesting your gameplay as much as possible.

I liked Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side DS quite a bit. But it had a logic flaw: if the main character can politely opt out of her job, then why can't she politely reject a guy? Addressing this issue would avoid the artificial challenge of forcing the MC to go on dates with three guys.

Likewise, I enjoyed the fifth Sakura Wars game quite a bit. But one of my complaints was pacing: all interactions followed by all combat. There would be a series of conversations and walking-about-town segments that could add up to a couple hours. Eventually, it would lead to two or three battles with no breaks in between, which could also last a couple hours.

I gave Heartache 101 a lot of leeway, because it's freeware, because it had a dice-rolling event generator that I'd never seen before, and because it reminded me of some '90s games that I'd wanted for years and years. There's also a minigame rather similar to Pac-Man. It's somewhat annoying, but tolerable because it's barely important -- success at the minigame brings more money.

[Juneberry]

I think the expansion of VNs can be good or bad mostly depending on the way it reacts to the story and such. While mine are personally mostly being done as pure VNs, a very vague RPG element can be useful at times, and so can more interactive games along the way. If they play well with the story- say, card games in a story that involves a gambler, I think that might work well. But it isn't always necessary either. It all depends on the story, the type of expansions and the target audience as a group...Or so I think.

[noeinan]

I definitely reiterate the necessity of playtesting to make sure that added gameplay elements aren't horrible. I recall playing one game where you, the player, could visit six different locations at two points in the day. Unfortunately, few of the locations gave any meaningful interactions with characters and half the time I visited every place only to get... no interactions. Not a single one. I finished the game with no good ending (ambiguous dialogue choices) and couldn't bring myself to play again because I spent so much of the game bored.

That said, some gameplay elements can help by giving the player a break between reading all the text. I think the best gameplay elements are probably those where the player gets to choose *when* to play. For example, being able to choose when to enter battle (perhaps with a few exceptions for story reasons) or they get to choose when/if to go to a part time job (as opposed to visiting a character and talking.) This way, the player is in control over the balance of gameplay to visual novel. Everyone has different limits on how long they can read without a break, how long they can sit through a battle or mini-game without getting bored, etc.

[DeletedUser160413]

I think gameplay can be a pretty good asset to a game, as long as it is good. I remember playing Surviving Highschool as one of my first VN's and I really liked the storyline, the graphics etc but felt like game play wasn't really necessary in that type of game. If game play works as a "filler", then that's not the type of game I personally go for. I love "pure" VNs and I don't think a really good game with well made graphics and a good story needs game play, as much as I feel like voice acting isn't necessary.

[Dragonstar89]

I believe if the gameplay always contributes either negative or positive effects to shifts and possibilities in the story line; than it's perfect for it's VN. Though, I think it get's bad with games that throw it in just for the sake of well...throwing it in. I don't want to be playing a Visual Novel about some unemployed guy trying to find love, that when on his first date all of the sudden I have to do a puzzle or quiz that really makes no since.

I also think the addition of 'mini-games' as 'extras' isn't to great of an idea as well. Your VN should be your VN, not an arcade-game pack. I understand (especially when you're new to it) why you'd like to have things like a mocked Bejewled and a game of Poker in your Visual Novel as an unlockable mini-game: you want it because you most likely believe it's fun and others will find it fun! But people play different games for a reason; people play Visual Novels for the stories within them, and wanting to see all aspects of the story.

Basically, Gameplay should be defined based on what your game is: if you're making a VN about a group of guys in the 80's trying to be the masters at their local arcade, than having a bunch of different little mini-games like an old looking Solitaire, Bejewled, Pac-Man, etc., would definitely be perfect: it contributes to the story and therefor it sinks itself in as part of the story.

[qirien]

Yeah, it all depends on what kind of VN/game you are making. If it's a horror VN, then having the player explore a creepy old mansion can create more suspense than just clicking through text. If your game is partly about improving the MC and being good at stuff, then having stats makes sense. If your game is about overcoming challenges through persistence, then a mini-game on the same theme might make sense.

I think mini-games are fun as long as they go with the theme of the game, are of proper difficulty, and are well-done. I like the strategic elements of "Long Live the Queen" and the puzzle solving in "The Madness" and the robotic exploration in "Adrift". But I thought that the stats in "Always Remember Me" were not used enough and were also too hard to discern what raised them by how much for that part of the game to be very fun.

[Rosstin2]

It seems to me that there are two successful approaches for adding gameplay without people hating it. One is to make your VN about the gameplay; the other is to make it as minimal and non-irritating as possible.

Asceai speaks the truth.

Visual Novels are traditionally about story. If you're going to add gameplay, it has to tie seamlessly in. That isn't easy.

Personally I find things like Dragon's Lair, Telltale's Walking Dead, and Quantic Dreams' Heavy Rain to be excellent examples of "Visual Novels with Gameplay". I guess you may protest and say that, for various reasons, these aren't VNs, but I disagree. These are just VNs with bigger budgets and some gameplay thrown in.

For me, the draw of creating a visual novel is in crafting a story without gameplay. The gameplay is the dialog, the decisions, the story.

Personally, if I had a bigger budget I'd love to build a hybrid VN. I think a good way to do this is to have a single core gameplay mechanic alongside the VN aspect of the game. A battle system is obviously one of the simplest ways. I think Riviera: The Promised Land is a good example of an excellent game that isn't much different from a VN in many ways, but has wonderful extra bits-- an RPG-like battle system, a nice way of letting the player choose where to go and what to do that makes it feel a little like an adventure game in places. Wonderful game.

[Ferdokki]

I realize my post is kinda late, so sorry if you don't need my input anymore.

Anywho, I'm ok with Gameplay in VN if they're relevant to the game. If the games aren't relevant to the VN, it's distracting, and therefore somewhat annoying.
There are certain games for which you have to play a mini-game and get a certain score in order to progress in the story. For some VNs, as the game progresses, the mini-game gets harder/harder to achieve the specific score. I HATE THAT. If the gameplay is tedious enough to stop my progress in the game, I'm going to end up giving up, and then I won't finish the game at all.
Some VNs have optional mini-games. Like, it's not required to play them, but the player can do so if they're bored. Or, sometimes playing these optional mini-games gives prizes/stat boosts, and that's helpful; it also gives an incentive to play them.

I felt the need to mention Hidden Object Games (games where you're given a list of things to find, and from that list, a couple of items will be useful for progressing in the game). I like Hidden Object Games to an extent. If it's a couple of things I need to find, it's ok. But if I'm repeatedly given scenes of irrelevant and unuseful items to find in a scene of cluttered junk, it's kind of a turn-off.
I think RPG elements are pretty cool as long as it's relevant to the story (I'm thinking "Shining Force" or the "Zenonia" series). However, if it's too hard, I might be inclined to stop playing (ex: in "Shining Force", there are certain battles for which, if you don't promote/upgrade your characters/team members, there's no way you can pass the level, and then you're just stuck and will probably have to start over).

But in the end, if the gameplay is unique and related to the story and won't get me frustrated or distracted, I won't mind playing it. =)

[sapiboonggames]

I totally love gameplay in VNs, especially if it matches well with the theme. Phoenix Wright, good story and good gameplay

However, I don't really like mini games that are too hard to beat. Especially if you know that the players don't play your game for the mini-games, but for the romance. One example is valentine chocolate's making in TMGS, which is rather hard to make a good choco and it makes me wish there's some sort of cheat for it.