Best Example of Crafting/Forging System in a Game?

[noeinan]

I am trying to do research on crafting/forging gameplay, and wanted to ask you all what games did this the best, in your opinion? What did you like/dislike about specific crafting/forging systems? What mechanic do you think would work well, but haven't seen? Any advice you can give is much appreciated!

[LVUER]

Personally I think Atelier series do this best. After all, the whole games revolves around item crafting/forging. I haven't played PS3 Atelier series (I've heard the crafting system is even better) but so far I like Mana Khemia 2 system the most. I even like it more at how they implement it into characters level up system.

[noeinan]

I like the Atelier series a lot as well! The crafting system may be a little bit more complex than I think I could manage in Ren'Py, though... I may need to replay them to gain inspiration. If I recall, you went out to gather ingredients, and depending on where you got them they were higher or lower "grade." You were also sent on quests to gather or kill certain things, and the faster you did it the more money you got.

Were there any other parts of their crafting system that you liked?

[DaFool]

/shameless plug

http://www.renai.us/game/magbou.shtml


Also, I too believe the ultimate evolution would be the Atelier System.

The newest one in Escha/Logy even has a sequencer system so you can micro-manage the subtraits that get inherited.

[Asceai]

As someone unfamiliar with what Atelier does, I'm incredibly curious now. What does it involve and what aspects would be hard to do in Ren'Py?

[DaFool]

Probably there is an English vid out there with just the crafting demonstration and without all the lets play yakking, but couldn't find one for now.

[TrickWithAKnife]

There are certain recurring elements I've seen games use.

• Collect specific items to create a completely new item.
• Merge two or more items to make a more powerful version of the same item.
• Have a chance of item merging/creating/improving fail. In some games, the failure destroys the items, sometimes giving a consellation item, in others failure means you lose some currency, but still have your original items, and in others there is no failure.
• In some games collecting a general type of item is enough. For example, in Monster Hunter you can combine a bone with some metals to create pickaxes of varying strengths.
• Use some items to make a main item stronger. For example, in Eternity Warriors you can level up equipment to give them higher stats by forging weaker equipment into them.
• Some games use a different system, where items are broken down to their raw materials before being crafted into something new.
• Some games also allow modifiers to items that can affect gameplay, such as elemental resistences through runes or enchantments, silencers for pistols, special abilities through technology, etc. There could also be negative effects, such as weight or profession restrictions.

There are other things to take into account, such as whether crafting/forging skills will level up to allow better results or new recipes, whether it's better to carefully balance production costs with results, or set up efficient mass production. Depends so much on your game.

[noeinan]

Hm, that makes sense! Thanks for the helpful responses, everyone.

I'm planning on trying to make a crafting/forging system because I want my main character to be a blacksmith-- but more along the lines of Kuznya from Russian mythology. So, there's an idea that forging powerful items actually uses up the smith's soul or essence. My idea was that the player can also replenish their essence by experiencing the world-- both wonderful and horrible things, and especially relationships with other people. (But you do have to mix the two-- because if you only experience good things then you get used to it and it doesn't touch your soul as much, same with the bad. I'll probably have some kind of meter so players can see if they're weighing in too much on one side or the other.)

It would be kind of Harvest Moon-like in that the player is in a small town and there is a strong concentration on forming relationships with other people. The town is small enough that there is only one Smith (and apprentice, the player) so the player will make all sorts of things for various people around town. (Not just weapons, but things like door handles, chains, candle holders, farming tools, etc.) Since the main theme of the game is the character being a smith, I really want to design a fun system-- and I've got to design it before I can start programming it.

I did see someone made a crafting system in Ren'Py already in this thread: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... ilit=craft

So maybe I'll use that as a base. I'm not too sure of what I am/am not capable in Ren'Py-- but I guess I'll have to try and find out. ^_^ So far, I'm thinking I'll want to include at least the following features:

• Go out and gather ingredients. There would be a 2D map of town and other areas, and the player can move through them and interact with the environment. I was thinking more detail than sprite art, so the people and environment just look super deformed instead of pixelated?
• I like the idea in Atelier where certain items of quality can be found in specific areas. This would be mostly mining because you are a smith, but possibly also looking for certain spirits to help you (since it's kind of magical smithing?)
• There may be actual career miners, but they only get unlocked either a) when you make enough money to hire them or b) possibly unlocking a larger city? (I don't want to get too ahead of myself, though, so I'll probably start simple and add complexity as I go on, making sure I always have something workable.)
• Possibly giving certain items "elemental affinities" that gives you bonuses when combining compatible affinities, but it's harder to combine opposing ones. Really powerful items can be made by forging opposing elements, but you need to have a high smithing level.
• You can make items from scratch and also reforge existing items to make them stronger. (I think that elements may have a "rock paper scissors" relationship, so if you have a base item that is made of "paper" and want to reforge with "scissors" it will be much easier.)
• Making items higher than your level spends your essence, but if you're making an item for someone and you form a close enough connection, you actually split the essence cost between the two of you, and can make an item more suited to them.
• Making some items will trigger plot events because it will get the attention of certain plot forces. Having a higher smithing skill in general will also grab attention, and get you requests from people out of town (thus unlocking new relationships etc.)
• On another forum, someone mentioned that they liked being able to use the items they make, not just sell them. Considering working something in with this? Maybe you can help out other people at their jobs via mini games or something, and better items gives you a bonus? Dunno, this would be something I would add in after I had the base system done and polished.

Does this sound like a fun crafting system, something that would be worth playing? If I'm working off of the completed crafting section I posted above, do you think this is feasible to make in Ren'Py? Or would I be wasting my time and it is better to just learn a new language?

Thanks again for you guys' input!

[sendo]

I'm also unfamiliar with the Atelier series, but Summon Night: Swordcraft Story series crafting system was so damn fun, albeit being simple.

I believe all the features you want can be done using Ren'Py. There is a Tile and Unit Engine. It's a good start for the 2D map with interaction. The rest of the gameplay elements you've listed can be easily handled by Ren'py.

[noeinan]

Thanks for the link-- I wonder if the Tile and Unit engines are still viable with the newest version of Ren'Py? I know a lot of older stuff like that is documented, but has been replaced with different ways of doing things... (For example, the old DSE is now outdated and can be replicated with screen language.)

[sendo]

My bad. No, the Tile and Unit engine can't be used as a 'drop-in' system for current Ren'py. I was sort of suggesting that if you would implement a tile-based movement, it would be a good idea to check out that engine since it's open source you can study how to implement it yourself. Sorry that came out wrong.

[noeinan]

No problem! Thanks for the clarification.