A Midsummer Night's Dream (need pictures/music)

[vlint]

I've wanted to turn a Shakespeare play into a visual novel for some time now. Today, I actually did it (sans some of the graphics and sound). I'm looking for people who might be interested in helping out. Assistance would be volunteer (and I plan to release the result to the public for free). If you'd like to help a little, but not with the whole thing, that's great, too—I'm not particularly in a hurry.

Here are the background images I'm looking for:
• A room in a palace, in Athens (near a wood).
• A room in a cottage, in Athens (near a wood).
• Athens: A room in Quince's house.
• Athens: An apartment in the palace of Theseus.
• Pictures of a few different parts of a wood near Athens (at least two); the items above are of more importance, however.

Here are the characters involved:
"THESEUS, Duke of Athens."
"EGEUS, Father to Hermia."
"LYSANDER, in love with Hermia."
"DEMETRIUS, in love with Hermia."
"PHILOSTRATE, Master of the Revels to Theseus."
"QUINCE, the Carpenter."
"SNUG, the Joiner."
"BOTTOM, the Weaver." (we'll also need a donkey picture, or him with a donkey head at least)
"FLUTE, the Bellows-mender."
"SNOUT, the Tinker."
"STARVELING, the Tailor."
"HIPPOLYTA, Queen of the Amazons, bethrothed to Theseus."
"HERMIA, daughter to Egeus, in love with Lysander."
"HELENA, in love with Demetrius."
"OBERON, King of the Fairies."
"TITANIA, Queen of the Fairies."
"PUCK, or ROBIN GOODFELLOW, a Fairy."
"PEASBLOSSOM, Fairy."
"COBWEB, Fairy."
"MOTH, Fairy."
"MUSTARDSEED, Fairy."
"PYRAMUS, THISBE, WALL, MOONSHINE, LION: Characters in the Interlude performed by the Clowns."
"Other Fairies attending their King and Queen."
"Attendants on Theseus and Hippolyta."

Now, some characters need pictures more than others. Perhaps the fairies could all have the same picture (until we get more), if needed (except the king and queen, and maybe Puck; or maybe they could just be different shades/colors). Ideally, we would want pictures of some of the characters sleeping, as well, or in transition to/from such at least.

Anyway, I like this as an ebook already—with pictures and music it could be really nice. I'm using some public domain and GNU backgrounds I've found, currently. They should do for some of the outdoor background art, perhaps. Well, they'll work until something else comes along, at least. I know someone who might be willing to help with the character art, but I'll need to talk to her. Any other help, though, would be much appreciated. If you know anything about Athens, that could also help (as to what the forests there were like, and the rooms/palaces/apartments/clothing and such—back in Shakespeare's time or so; or as close as you would get).

[DaFool]

Hmmm.... I'd say getting the authentic specific time-period Athens pictures would be the hardest, compared to just using ballpark pictures.

Here's an idea: you could rent a DVD of this Shakespeare play (they did make films of most of his works, correct?) -- or a DVD of Athens, then take screenshots of it at the right scenes. Use as placeholders and trace over them.

The fact that the script is complete is all good. Although the pictures count would have to be determined, and I hope it's not too many.

[vlint]

It's not a 'huge' deal if the pictures aren't authentic, per se. It's mostly a good user experience I'm looking for (not 'necessarily' something historical; historical accuracy would be preferred, but I could live without it, personally, as long as it doesn't look 'modern'). I look at this as a matter of going the extra mile.

As far as the picture count goes, I'll take what I can get—whatever whoever wants to draw (but I plan to be waiting a long time on this one, whether or not any come from this forum). The same goes for music. Also, if you know of some 'specific' pre-existing music that you think would work well, feel free to let me know—by specific, I mean a specific song, and not a site containing general music that might work.

The script is actually, pretty much, exactly how it originally was (just reformatted for a visual novel; plays work pretty well for that, since they're mostly simple dialog without frequent statements as to how things were said; this is one of the reasons I wanted to convert a Shakespeare play into a visual novel). I suppose I might want to edit the enter/exit/exeunt parts so they don't look like they came straight from the play, even though the script is (I like it personally, but I suppose some people wouldn't), but that wouldn't be a 'huge' project. Let's take a poll. Who would rather have it as is (i.e. [Exit Theseus]), and who would rather have actions changed into more of a narrative (i.e. 'Theseus leaves', or something more elaborate)? Maybe I should make it so the user gets to choose when starting the game. Of course, if the art existed, we could indicate these things with it, as well (i.e. by which characters were on screen, and which disappeared), though this could be cumbersome, and potentially inaccurate with lots of characters on screen (i.e. they wouldn't all be standing side-by-side, likely—unless the characters had icon art instead of character art; I mean, say Final Fantasy 6/3 style characters as they are from the overhead view).

I've also been thinking about having each character's art show up in the dialog box (on the side) instead of in front (so, the art wouldn't need to be full-body art necessarily; it could just be a face with potentially a neck and shoulders). So, if we did icon art, we could just use the icons in the side (since they'd be small enough), and they would work for both things. Do you know anyone who specializes in such art?

If anyone's interested in seeing it as it is at the time you ask, let me know and I can email it to you, or post it up somewhere for download.

[DaFool]

'Theseus leaves' <- my vote. Also visually depicting it if possible would be nice.

I've also been thinking about having each character's art show up in the dialog box (on the side) instead of in front (so, the art wouldn't need to be full-body art necessarily; it could just be a face with potentially a neck and shoulders). So, if we did icon art, we could just use the icons in the side (since they'd be small enough), and they would work for both things. Do you know anyone who specializes in such art?

"Headshots" are the easiest to draw, since there are no complex postures.

There is show side-char:
http://dafool.visualnews.net/nettestadt/nt_katja.jpg

and there is centered box-type:
http://dafool.visualnews.net/buildersmind/bm_hiraya.jpg

Show side-char is problematic in that once you start compositing images, they tend to lose their registration. Also, you can only have one head shot per dialogue line. With separate box-type, you can line up multiple head shots. Example:
http://www.renai.us/game/hostlove.shtml

It looks like Side-char, but is actually de-centered box type. You can have 2 or 3 people on the screen at the same time, like this:
http://www.renai.us/game/loyalkinsman.shtml
The disadvantage of this approach, though, is that you need to manually specify show and hide for each character -- it gets very tedious(it's done automatically in Show Side-char).

It's advisable to search for all the resources that you can and work with those. The script is already not yours (it's Shakespeare's), so you will need to put a bit more effort in designing the overall production, besides plugging the script into the engine. Please be aware that custom art and music takes a lot of time, and artists may not be inclined to contribute custom resources for an off-the-shelf script. If on the other hand this were your play which you wrote from scratch, I would definitely be interested and would at least look over the playable skeleton.

[vlint]

Thanks for the information. I've experimented with some things since my last post. I added a bunch of public domain clipart for all the pictures. I must say, though, that it is rather comical—especially since the selection was limited. I just used them as side images (although I changed the location so as to allow for more text in a single portion, without a gap on the side; normally this wouldn't be needed, but the art I'm using is rather small).

I tend to prefer it without character art (unless the art is presented rather well, and more customized for the play), and just using the Ren'Py engine to make it a cool e-book. I like it with backgrounds, though. I'm not sure about music yet.

Ren'Py actually makes a great e-book reader if you ask me (even without the extra media). It keeps the attention well, and formats things in easily understandable ways. It's easy to read (the text isn't all small with a million words on each line; having a light font and a dark background is easy to do).

> Please be aware that custom art and music takes a lot of time, and artists may not be inclined to contribute custom resources for an off-the-shelf script.

Yes, I know this. I wasn't really expecting a lot of enthusiastic volunteers, but there was always the chance that someone would be a sucker for this particular play. This was meant to be, from the beginning, a sort of back-burner project—not something too serious. If there were less characters it would be much easier, though.

I'm thinking, though, that I'll keep this without character art (unless someone enthusiastically wants to do it), and just have it an e-book with backgrounds and maybe music, and save my efforts to get art for more serious projects. Also, I could go for illustrations instead of background and character art (meaning the characters would be drawn onto the background, as with an illustrated book, and they wouldn't necessarily be there for every portion of the book; maybe have a default background, or just black, for the rest).

Would it be easier to find such illustrators? as opposed to those who draw transparent character art.

Thanks for your post and all the information, again.

[DaFool]

Yup, the VN format is even easier for me to absorb compared to some online comics, and definitely more readable than scanlations.

The formats you mentioned --
no character art, just backgrounds, plus music = "Sound Novel"
no character art, just backgrounds, no music = no specific name for it, just a barebones VN or E-book as you will.

Illustrations that include the character as part of the background = "Event CG". From experience, they're harder to draw than just plain character sprites, although they may be easier than a very detailed background.

If you're not too keen on character portrayals, you might find that there are artists out there (unrelated to the anime communities) who render landscapes in 3D or paint sceneries on canvas. Of course then there's the issue of something resembling Athens, but there's bound to be a few out there who like to render classical architecture.

[vlint]

That sounds kind of cool (the 3-D thing). I know someone who does that sort of thing (I just don't know where he is anymore).

I've looked over what I have again. It's not 'as' comical as I first thought with the pictures (especially after I changed a certain one of them), although I would look at them as more symbolic than representative. I think I'll just use these for now, and leave the project open so that if someone gets tired of some picture or other, they can submit a new one.

It would be cool to have a border around the character art (to show that the character isn't in any particular position in the room; at least for the smaller art, and the side show option). Is this feature available? I know I could put the borders in the art itself, but I thought I might as well ask, as it would reduce the workload quite a bit. This might be nice for a future Ren'Py release (perhaps with several aesthetically pleasing border styles).

I hadn't heard of sound novels; that's cool—thanks for the information.

That's interesting that illustrations are harder to draw. I thought they might be easier for less computer literate people, at least. I don't mean typical visual novel style illustrations, but more the sort you actually see in books and art classes (not the sort that would look well with animation, I mean; more the pencil sort). Photographs, even, could work, I suppose (if people wanted to dress up and pose). I'm sure I could find a forest or improvise something to mimic a room in a palace. That would probably be the easiest way to get tons of images, anyway, but there's always the file size of the photos to consider.

I think I'll stick to the public domain character art on this, although I do think illustrations might better suit such as the normal novels that I'm writing (which I would want in e-book form as well). I think I could get my brother to do that for me, like he used to (if ever he has the time again). Maybe I could do it myself, with more practice. I'm looking more for expression of what is happening than something neat, colorful, and fit for a company production (something more whimsical in nature, more fit for an epic novel, or something of a dream). Maybe I would just have to show you what I mean. My only worry with this style is that it contains more white than black—this actually bothers me quite a bit, as I don't like glaring whiteness on my computer, much (for a normal paper novel, however, I like this a lot).

Well, back to the topic at hand: now I need to focus on the music, and then I might call it good (unless people volunteer more, or offer suggestions I feel up for implementing)—as I said, it's not an 'entirely' serious project (meaning not a lot is going into it's creation—but I think it's worth it nonetheless).

What are the rules regarding posting visual novels on Lemmasoft? I plan to post it on my Nabble forums (I host a group of forums there), anyway, so maybe I'll just put a link to it and avoid the double-upload. Or would you recommend the other way around (host it here and link to it from Nabble)—or host it both places, or does it matter at all?

Also, is there a way to play midis within Ren'Py? I know this isn't always desirable, but some midis would actually work quite well (plus, midis are easy to find—as well as make—and they're very small). I know a way through Python to write midis (producing the sounds, and not the files), but it's somewhat tedious, and I'd rather just be able to play the files. If you don't know a way through Ren'Py, do you know a way through Python to play midis? Preferably without a restrictive license.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[PyTom]

What are the rules regarding posting visual novels on Lemmasoft? I plan to post it on my Nabble forums (I host a group of forums there), anyway, so maybe I'll just put a link to it and avoid the double-upload. Or would you recommend the other way around (host it here and link to it from Nabble)—or host it both places, or does it matter at all?

There aren't any specific rules, per-se. I like having VNs mirrored either here or at the Ren'ai Archive, just so that if you get run over by a bus, the VN doesn't disappear from the net, like some of the early VNs did. (Muto's ones, for example.)

Also, is there a way to play midis within Ren'Py? I know this isn't always desirable, but some midis would actually work quite well (plus, midis are easy to find—as well as make—and they're very small). I know a way through Python to write midis (producing the sounds, and not the files), but it's somewhat tedious, and I'd rather just be able to play the files. If you don't know a way through Ren'Py, do you know a way through Python to play midis? Preferably without a restrictive license.

The problem is, midi playback had problems on Linux and x86 macs. In the latter case, the application would crash when you tried to play a midi, which was fairly bad. The code for midi playback still exists in Ren'Py, but is disabled for this reason.

[DaFool]

It would be cool to have a border around the character art (to show that the character isn't in any particular position in the room; at least for the smaller art, and the side show option). Is this feature available? I know I could put the borders in the art itself, but I thought I might as well ask, as it would reduce the workload quite a bit. This might be nice for a future Ren'Py release (perhaps with several aesthetically pleasing border styles).

It's a bit tricky, because displayables may be stretched or squeezed on demand, like textboxes for instance. The only way to make certain that a border frame is consistent is to make the character art box consistent in dimensions.

That's interesting that illustrations are harder to draw. I thought they might be easier for less computer literate people, at least. I don't mean typical visual novel style illustrations, but more the sort you actually see in books and art classes (not the sort that would look well with animation, I mean; more the pencil sort).

This is just a difference in the approach to art. Most people would draw things in cel-shaded / cartoon style, that was what I meant with event illustrations. Of course they could have left things as charcoal sketches, but so far no one has really pushed for this kind of style. Who knows, you may be the first This really gets into the realm of graphic design, and even many anime artists are unfamiliar with styles other then cel-shaded.

Well, back to the topic at hand: now I need to focus on the music,

Not sure if you've exhausted the resources here already
http://renpy.org/wiki/community/Resource_Links

What are the rules regarding posting visual novels on Lemmasoft? I plan to post it on my Nabble forums (I host a group of forums there), anyway, so maybe I'll just put a link to it and avoid the double-upload. Or would you recommend the other way around (host it here and link to it from Nabble)—or host it both places, or does it matter at all?

It's up to you, although uploading here (<50mb) is possible, remember these forums are actually on PyTom's personal machine, and not in some data center.

I usually abide by these rules for my projects:
http://www.renai.us/submit.shtml (Renai Archives or RAA)

But the forums are less strict, since there has been a Phoenix Write Ren'Py port, lots of works in progress with non-CC-licensed resources, etc. There are also games like Time's Tear (a port of an existing piece of literature, just like this project) and Of Apes and God which don't satisfy all the requirements of the RAA (it's not really heavy on romance nor storytelling), but which are still considered as complete projects.

In general, usage of non-licensed or copyrighted resources is frowned upon, unless the work is a fangame of a certain TV show or property. So having everything be original / custom or at least off-the-shelf CC (Creative-Commons) - licensed is recommended.

Also, is there a way to play midis within Ren'Py? I know this isn't always desirable, but some midis would actually work quite well (plus, midis are easy to find—as well as make—and they're very small). I know a way through Python to write midis (producing the sounds, and not the files), but it's somewhat tedious, and I'd rather just be able to play the files. If you don't know a way through Ren'Py, do you know a way through Python to play midis? Preferably without a restrictive license.

Midi support back in Ren'Py 5.X.X was buggy and has been dropped since the 6.X.X series.
I use Synthfont, coupled with a couple soundfonts (.sf2 files) downloaded randomly off the web. It comes with a default general midi soundfont so that should be enough for most purposes.
http://www.synthfont.com/
Once rendered to .wav, I then use Oggdrop to convert to .ogg
Please note the license of the individual midis you render, unless you composed them yourself.

[PyTom]

It's up to you, although uploading here (<50mb) is possible, remember these forums are actually on PyTom's personal machine, and not in some data center.

Actually, the machine is housed in a data center in Texas. I pay to rent a machine, and the forums/archive are being run on that machine.

[DaFool]

It's up to you, although uploading here (<50mb) is possible, remember these forums are actually on PyTom's personal machine, and not in some data center.

Actually, the machine is housed in a data center in Texas. I pay to rent a machine, and the forums/archive are being run on that machine.

That incident where you had to replace the harddrive (or something like that) led me to believe that the machine was physically accessible. I had the impression that these forums and the RAA are miles away from each other; not that they are both in Texas which seems to be the case now.

[PyTom]

That incident where you had to replace the harddrive (or something like that) led me to believe that the machine was physically accessible. I had the impression that these forums and the RAA are miles away from each other; not that they are both in Texas which seems to be the case now.

Renai.us, Lemmasoft.renai.us, and Bishoujo.us are all hosted on a single computer I rent from theplanet.com. It's hosted in a data server in Texas. The server also hosts a number of other web sites unrelated to visual novels, such as my home page, my parents' home page, and a friend's embroidery business.

It's quite possible I said that I needed to add a new hard drive, when I really meant that I needed to have the data center install a new hard drive. If so, I apologize for the imprecision.

[vlint]

Not sure if you've exhausted the resources here already
http://renpy.org/wiki/community/Resource_Links

I wouldn't say I've exhausted them, yet, but I've looked through them.

In general, usage of non-licensed or copyrighted resources is frowned upon, unless the work is a fangame of a certain TV show or property. So having everything be original / custom or at least off-the-shelf CC (Creative-Commons) - licensed is recommended.

Hmm—all the stuff I've used so far is said to be either public domain, GNU, or CC. This goes for pictures. As for midis, I would probably just make them myself (I'm more into that sort of thing than I used to be).

Do people here ever go to places like Elfwood and ask artists there if they can use their stuff? Asking permission 'seems' like a good way to go, at times, anyway.

I use Synthfont, coupled with a couple soundfonts (.sf2 files) downloaded randomly off the web. It comes with a default general midi soundfont so that should be enough for most purposes.
http://www.synthfont.com/
Once rendered to .wav, I then use Oggdrop to convert to .ogg
Please note the license of the individual midis you render, unless you composed them yourself.

Does SynthFont have problems on Macintosh and Linux systems? I don't have either (currently; I plan to switch over to Linux when I get another computer), so I it would take me a while to tell.

[vlint]

Does anyone know some software that when converting midis to compressed audio will change the instruments used to such as might sound nicer than the midi instruments? EDIT: Hmm, it looks like synthfont is sort of like this.

[vlint]

Please note the license of the individual midis you render, unless you composed them yourself.

If the song itself is old enough to be public domain (and the midi is not an arrangement), is the midi also public domain? I should hope so, anyway—there are thousands of cool Celtic traditional songs in midi format out there. If not, I guess I could notate the song myself, and use my own midi—it would only make sense. Hrmm.