AVG or NVL

[Asceai]

To be honest, I'm thinking of mixing both AVG and NVL formats, but either way I'm going to end up using one of them for a majority of the text. In addition, the style that I do choose to favour will heavily affect my method of storytelling (since you don't have the screen space in AVG format. So I'm interested in knowing what people prefer.

As a quick refresher for people unfamiliar with the formats, AVG (Adventure game) format is where text and dialogue is shown in a reduced-size textbox, and typically there is a textbox clear when switching narrators etc.

Example AVG:


NVL format is where the entire screen is used for the text display, and a single screen can contain multiple speakers as well as narration.

Example NVL:

[Wintermoon]

I think NVL mode works best with static CGs. If you have a lot of dynamic stuff on the screen (i.e. characters moving around and changing expressions), then NVL mode is going to look silly. If you primarily have static CGs, then NVL would work better, because it lets you see the whole picture. So it really depends on the type of story, your artistic vision, and your artistic abilities.

NVL mode is more like a traditional picture book. ADV mode is more like an anime or a game. NVL mode give you more artistic freedom to change camera angles and can handle a variety of different scenes, but it also has pretty stiff art requirements. ADV mode works best for conversations. NVL mode works for third person, while ADV mode is strongly linked to first person.

(Disclaimer: I've never played a full length NVL-mode visual novel.)

[sake-bento]

My current VN mixes both with an emphasis on the AVG format. Basically, all the CGs will be shown in the NVL format and then the background+character image stuff will be presented in AVG format. It's a first person game, which is why I really like the interactive feeling of the AVG format, so I prefer it over NVL for most cases. However, the CGs just look better in NVL mode.

[DaFool]

NVL is why it takes me forever to finish any game made by ZigZag...

... or maybe it's just their writing style.

[monele]

I keep wondering about that because I *want* to show characters and their expressions... yet I realized I'm better at writing long descriptive sentences/paragraphs which works better with NVL mode. My current solution is to make the NVL window narrower, and put portraits on the sides.
I wonder how switching between modes would work, too... I think it might work the way sake-bento describes it : change from time to time, but keep to a mode for a certain length of time. Switching between modes constantly (NVL to describe, ADV for dialogues for example) would be annoying.

[Vatina]

In my game I also switch between the two, with a big emphasis on AVG though. NVL are only used for certain segments.

I don't think I prefer on over the other, it mostly depends on what I'm in the mood for. What they are best at has already been mentioned - I also have two other vn projects that I am considering, where one is definitly a AVG game, and the other is definitily a NVL game

I guess it depends on how you want to write and tell the story?

[Asceai]

Well, the most common 'mixed' approach I've seen puts a lot more emphasis on the AVG portions than the NVL portions. I'm thinking I'll do the opposite for my game.. most of it will be NVL, with certain parts AVG. I have an idea about how it will work, too.

Thanks for the input, folks!

[mikey]

The Dual Hearts remake (Binary Hearts) had NVL and AVG layout types, as far as I remember.
Also, Dream Chasers has face icons inside NVL mode.
Some of out own games have text in the centre, without a textbox.
Some games have NVL for narrative, AVG for conversation.
Eidolon had an interesting positioning of text, in the top half.
And, what's wrong with splitting the text vertically?

So it's a matter of layout, really, and I wouldn't say you're limited to a combination, if it makes sense, go for something unique - for Ori Ochi Onoe for example I wanted no textbox, but I didn't want text to completely write over graphics either. And, I wanted the text to be close to the face, so you wouldn't stare at the girl's legs (AVG), but look her in the eyes when reading.

If I had to decide between a strict AVG and NVL layout (like the screens demonstrate), I'd definitely take AVG - chiefly because the NVL dims the graphic, writes all over it (you get text written over the face of the people - not in the specific picture, but it always happens), and you have these beautiful CGs which you never see in their real (more vibrant) colors, you have to manually clear the screen to look at them fully.

So the limited text area (regardless of positioning) is what I'd prefer, sort of having the elements (text and pictures) "side by side", instead of on top of each other.

[monele]

I'm pretty sure I remember a game that went NVL for the most time and switched to ADV (or really mostly a "subtitle"-like style) when showing fullscreen CGs. It allowed you to see the whole CG properly.

[Asceai]

I'm pretty sure I remember a game that went NVL for the most time and switched to ADV (or really mostly a "subtitle"-like style) when showing fullscreen CGs. It allowed you to see the whole CG properly.

Actually, Haru no Ashioto mixes all three styles pretty well (the 'subtitle' one you only see in a few areas. It's used mainly for dramatic effect, same with the NVL bits). The majority of the game is still AVG though.

As for mixing further styles, hmm. To be honest, I'm not too worried about covering up beautiful art; I'm no artist, and at the moment it looks like I'm going to be creating all the art in the game myself =P So yeah, I think I will still make the majority of the game NVL, and use other styles as fits whatever effect I'm going for.

[EvilDragon]

I don't know, I'm a fan of NVL mode. Because, you don't have to dim the screen too much (setting the alpha to 0.25 is just fine), it feels more like a book (which I like), and even character emotion changing is quite visible and ok to me. I really don't have anything against it. FSN has done it well.

Oh, and I'm also one of the full-descriptive-long-sentences kind of guy.

[Sin]

I have a question. How popular are NVL-type games anyways on a whole?
I'm wondering about whether or not I should implement a solid support* for them in my visual novel engine.

*: There's always DIY-support.

[luminarious]

Majority of games seem to be of the ADV-kind, yet in most cases the game would work equally well as a NVL, imho. I kinda wish NVL was more popular. I hate looking at the knees of characters while reading their text, it's so counter-intuitive!

[EvilDragon]

Well FSN is highest selling VN of year 2004, and FHA of year 2005. So I'd say people like NVL

[monele]

Well FSN is highest selling VN of year 2004, and FHA of year 2005. So I'd say people like NVL

Is it really about NVL and not about interesting characters and stories and visuals? Sure, NVL means there's a focus on narration instead of endless dialogues, but I don't know if it was the selling point *ponders*.