Lemma Soft Forums

Hello everyone! I wanted to know people's thoughts on the MC of a dating sim:

1. Is being able to customize the MC the extra push that makes you play a vn?
2. Does it bother you when the MC does something you wouldn't do (assuming they're flawed for story reasons and not just bad writing), or is it refreshing that they are their own character?
3. Would you rather play a more story-driven game, or one with greater replayability/customization?

I ask this because I'm planning a game but I can hypothetically see myself going two directions with the MC:

1. Having an MC with an established backstory, gender, and personality. There are details in their backstory such as going to an all girl's high school and the presence of a lesbian love interest from said all girl's school as well as a straight love interest which would require them to be female.
2. Having an MC with a customizable gender, pronouns, and specialty (think strength, wisdom, speed etc.) Players will be able to have more individualized experiences and explore the setting in different ways, and I'd be willing to tweak details in the story in order to support this.

I'm really torn because I think most people would agree if you can include customizability or inclusivity, you should go for it. But personally I feel like once I've played a story/route once, I don't feel like playing it again even with customization because the story doesn't change enough (hot take maybe but VN's with customization often only provide the illusion of choice). I also don't mind an established MC if it makes the plot and relationships to the LI's more significant (think Cinderella Phenomenon or The Blind Griffin). I'm really, like, looking into the cost benefit analysis of this because I don't want to implement something that only sounds good in theory. But that's just my opinion, and wanted to know how much of a difference it really makes for other people.

EDIT**I just realized I've asked this question before aaaaaaa oh well I think the situation is a tad different and it's important for me to know this before I start planning a story around it.

Some thoughts!
1. No, being able to customize an MC is not an extra push for me. I play a wide range of different types of visual novels from Japanese and Western developers.
2. It doesn't bother me. Even with character customization, there will always be a suspension of belief. I have been seen both done well and really depends on the story and the story the writer is trying to achieve. I think the biggest thing about fleshed out characters is that their personality is consistent across routes. It always confuses me if the MC does a personality 180 in another route.
3. I love a good stat raiser, but find that you either sacrifice story for gameplay and vice versa. From a developer point of view, I'm always worried about feature creep and rather do one or two things really well than not accomplish my story, but I'm also a newbie dev.

1. No. More often than not, I'd just stick with the defaults.
2. It doesn't bother me. The way I see it, it isn't any much different from reading a fictional novel written in first-person.
3. If we're talking about visual novels, personally, I'd prefer a more story-driven game. Most of the time, if I'm replaying a visual novel, I'm skipping the text that I've already read on my previous playthroughs, and am only interested in seeing the other routes. I'd hate having to re-play the same mini-game multiple times.

1. Is being able to customize the MC the extra push that makes you play a vn?

If it's customization that interacts with the story in ridiculously robust ways a la the Developer's Foresight trope, I think that's incredibly rad and would convince me to play the game, yes. But that's pretty hard to implement XD

2. Does it bother you when the MC does something you wouldn't do (assuming they're flawed for story reasons and not just bad writing), or is it refreshing that they are their own character?

Gonna jump on the 'i think it's cool' train for this one :]

3. Would you rather play a more story-driven game, or one with greater replayability/customization?

Story is the #1 thing I want from a VN, but I also feel like there are so many story-driven VNs out there that it's hard to stand out to me and get me to pick experiencing your story over the next VN's. What would really stand out to me though is a very customizable game where the choices actually matter and changes the story in meaningful ways instead of just providing the 'illusion of choice', like you mentioned. I know this is really hard to implement as the amount of work you have to do grows exponentially with the length of the game, but I wouldn't mind the game being short if it lets you have robust, meaningful customization

But I will take a VN with a well-written established protagonist which only gives you choices that fall under what the protagonist would do, over a VN with customization that doesn't really have the effects that make customization fun, as it also hampers the writing because the protagonist has no distinguishable traits for the rest of the world/characters to play off of

My thoughts:
A fully customizable self-insert blank slate MC can never be an integral part of the story. Sure, he/she experiences it and takes part in it, but so could anybody else. A pre-set MC can have a character background that is deeply connected to the events in the game. Past, personality, quirks everything can play an important role.
As a self-insert MC, you are by design just a bystander, or in the best case an outsider butting in.

I think it really depends on the importance of the scenario and whether or not it's linear.
If it's basically meant to be enjoyed as a story, the same way one would enjoy a novel, a comic book or an anime, the your MC is a character of the story and should be treated as such. Even if there are several paths, if each of them is just a variation of the story, it's still important, it's better for the story to be credible than for the MC to be relatable.

If it's a thing meant to engage with the player more, where either they choice really matter or you deceive them into feeling like they do (like in DDLC); then having a blank slate MC can be better, it strengthens the player's illusion of control and agency.

Yes, I'm more likely to be interested if I can customize, but not a self insert, just love making a custom character. Part of it for me is that I like making a new character every path, so it's not the same person romancing multiple people or being both a good and bad guy. Also if the choices allow me to shape personality that makes it even nicer to have different looks each time! That being said I care more about skin colour, hair colour, bonus if it has eye colour and hair styles. Not so much gender. Awesome if I can pick any gender, but it's nice to have stories with set genders too. Extra bonus if I can change clothing, but that's just my obsession with fashion talking!

No, as I don't do self insert... I do tend to dislike if the character is too stuck into one way of being though, especially if the choices I pick don't seem to match... Like one VN I played the character was so positive all the time, even when really bad things happened. No matter what choice I made she refused to budge from that chipper identity. I only really enjoyed one playthrough and still in that one got irritated when she should be being serious based on my choices, but made light of everything.
I do like some with more set personallies, but I feel it has to have higher level writing for me to enjoy it, and I rarely replay them. I find even if you can just slightly change their personalities though the path you end up taking I'm happy.

Both. I have a few VNs that are my favorites becuse of the customization and good story. The replayability comes from the decent customization and the good story. I can't say what side I would pick becuse I've already found ones I like that have both and I like them most. Mind you the customization is minimal. Skin and hair colour for most of them, and some clothing changes. But that is enough for me. One has gender, all the colour changes, hair styles and a detail personality option, and that's my favorite.

All this being said though... I'll take a set Mc with no customization, a set personality, and few meaningful choices over a Mc that I can never see. I know that's weird, but I just so dislike not seeing the MC. I play to watch their story unfold, not pretend I'm in the game, so it tends to turn me away if the MC is just a voice (or text). The visuals are important to me, even if the art isn't top of the line I'm fine, just let me see the MC and at least all the main characters.

Depending on the game some people would prefer the self insertion Main Character, at least that's what players of adult games tend to like.

You could get feedback from actual players over at Itchio and see what they would like to see instead of game developers here.

I will try to answer as a player. When I'm making games, who knows what I actually end up doing. o_o

1. I don't care about MC customization, as long as I can remotely identify with her/him. I never found an MC that would make me not want a game.
2. It does bother me when the MC does something I wouldn't do, when it's something I consider stupid, like walking into a trap, or when a plot is based on misunderstandings and lack of communication.
3. I'd prefer a good story with memorable characters. Customization is awesome, but I think it's something else that makes games great.

Customization and replayability are features that add something to a game, but it's difficult to measure. From a player's perspective, they are nice to have. But from a dev perspective, each additional feature makes your already complex job even more complex. You should also consider whether it is something you would really enjoy making. If you really want it, go for it.

I think it depends on how the story is told. If I consider a VN as a book in a fictional world, I would never compare myself with the protagonist. However, if the story is told realistically and gives me personal room for decisions that are based on emotions or implications and touch me, then I would probably be more likely to compare myself to the protagonist. But this is very individual and as a result you will possibly never be able to satisfy every player of your game.
For example, the setting takes place in an Indian metropolis where four girls have grown up in a residence. The names are Ajala, Amba, Benisha and you -the MC. Who would come up with the idea of naming the MC Christine and what sense does it make in this setting?

When I play a VN I expect to read a story. Even if it's a romantic one, I want to be immersed in something well crafted and, when a VN author allows me to customize my character in a bunch of ways, I feel it detracts from the experience. I would rather play a VN and be intrigued by the story the author is trying to tell than be able to do whatever I want in a more superficial way. The other side is that sometimes the main character may simply think in ways, act in ways, or believe in things that I can't get behind, and that can repel me. I'm picky with what fiction I like, especially if I'm looking to immerse myself in a world - or the mind of a character - for long periods of time.

A lot of the time when I write a main character, I'm more or less writing what I would do in a situation. The character has his personal preferences, past, and so on, but he can also be open-minded to an extent and be reasonable. People and their preferences are very complicated and I don't think any of us will please everyone - I think we should write in a way that speaks to us instead of worrying about what others think. I think, in writing what's meaningful to us, we'll end up telling better stories, most of the time.

As for this thought... "I'm really torn because I think most people would agree if you can include customizability or inclusivity, you should go for it."
Nah... I think the struggle to include everyone is misguided because I think everyone can really relate with everyone, when you get down to it. I relate to the single mother mouse protagonist in The Secret of NIMH as well as the square robot with a cockroach in Wall-E. What matters is who we are, not what we are. I also feel that giving people a bunch of options tends to water down the experience.

But this is all up to you. <3 I realize I'm replying to a rather old post but maybe this will help someone at some point? At least, I just shared my opinion.

It depends on the game.

And in some cases, making the MC a player's self-insert with the clever use of customization options and then adding personality-based choices ingame can make an otherwise normal VN into a memorable story with multiple ways to play through the story arc(s).

I like a good mixture. Nice, established backstory, with intensely replayable options that let you make your own character out of them. This ensures your character can interact properly with the universe you've written, *and* lets the player have an absolute blast.
Like one of my favorite interactive fictions, Tally Ho! by Kreg Segall. You have some established facts-- you're a butler/lady's maid, and you worked for your employer's fiancée before working for them-- and then you have the changeable stuff-- were you a thief or a lion tamer? Are you classy or crass? Can you knock a body out with your left hook, or do you recite poetry to strangers on a train platform?
Options are what got me into interactive fiction. They thrill me, and they make me want to pay a game over and over until I've got every nook and cranny unearthed. I memorize things quickly, and that makes replaying VNs a little boring if there are not many points of divergence.
I also *really* hate it when a character does something I wouldn't do-- like in the sequel to Tally Ho!, Cakes and Ale-- in which you *must* hire a very annoying person to be *your* butler/lady's maid. I understand why Kreg went this way-- it makes for a really entertaining game, and multiple hiring candidates would have gotten *extremely* unwieldly in an interactive fiction of such immense size. But that doesn't change that I always skim over that part during replays. Why? Because I have no say.
I think interactive fictions, such as visual novels, are incredible forms of art. I think it's a pity not to exploit the things that make VNs different from books and video games, and fill it up with choices!

I like established MC by a landslide.

However, remember that there is a market for both.

These gacha games are a good example:
Heaven Burns Red (established MC, clear gender)
and Blue Archive (Self insert, unclear gender)

Think about the experience you want the player to have.