Android Ren'Py!

[IceD]

there's no sane way to package games, or use an existing game.

Oh, by this you mean you will have to think of a different way for releasing the games? Or was it in the context of your last post?

How do you foresee the release process of games on Android? Will it just be a separate launcher (different method of compilation), or will some Ren'Py functionality have to be deprecated? Will games with extra python functionality work as they are, since pygame is as you said, working?

I think it's just a matter of portability. I don't think that most of the functions (if any, honestly), would be deprecated. Those new ARM processors are really powerful and capable to run such applications smoothly without any problems; for example: Espgaluda 2 works on a quite similiar 133 mhz RISC CPU, while ours are far, far more powerful. It isn't a similiar architecture and such games are created mostly in assembler, but many things stay the same; it's only a matter of good programming, and since Android is a linux build...

It would be great if things would stay the way they are now and a simple linux build of our game would run on android Ren'Py without any problems...

Suggestions: Probably just wanna scale the font and text as well. It'll have to be trial and error probably for most designers.

No, for the god's sake, no. I don't think this will ever happen. Android has a perfect scalling engine. If it can resize Full HD or HD ready movies which require tremendous processing powers, to run on 800x480 or even 480x320 screens, it should resize simple layered Ren'Py graphics without any problems. Again, this is a matter of portability and good programming. I'm sure PyTom could just write everything from scratch, but we want portability, right? Not another app, which will clone the functions on Ren'Py (while being a DEVkit for android wouldn't propably be that bad idea ). There's already an ONScripter port for android, and it works great. If it works, and by WORKS I mean functioning in a same matter as it's PC counterpart and you just simply run the binaries of Nscripter VN's through it, IT CAN BE DONE with Ren'Py.

[jack_norton]

When I did a port of one of my C games to iphone, I had to use a "custom font", because the default one scaled down looked s....t But having by default to scale everything to fit screen is a good decision, then is a matter of trial/error. With such small screen sizes I'm not sure that TTF fonts are the best way, probably is better to have pixel-fonts (not scalable ones but made exactly for small resolutions).

[Jake]

With such small screen sizes I'm not sure that TTF fonts are the best way, probably is better to have pixel-fonts (not scalable ones but made exactly for small resolutions).

I suspect the problem in your case at least is just that the TTF fonts you've been using don't have hinting for small sizes. Well-made TTFs will have special-case code for common point-sizes, especially the smaller ones that people are expected to use, to make sure that they render well. That's why typing at 10pts and typing at 20pts and scaling down by 50% don't produce exactly the same pixels. Of course, most TTF creators don't expect people to use their fonts at 2pt or whatever, so they probably don't spend that long hinting them.

If Ren'Py's just going to scale down a rendered-to-a-known-target-resolution image for the mobile screen, then this won't help, of course, and it'll just be down to the designer to pick a font which looks good scaled down - and pixel fonts wouldn't help at all either, unless you just happen to pick a good-for-scaling one. (The other option being to just draw everything at a fixed proportion of the screen, which is the more-technically-correct option but can sometimes introduce alignment issues if people aren't careful.)

[jack_norton]

AH didn't know about that special case, interesting
Anyway, font issues is really a small problem to face when you can then have a working game on android without having to mess up with SDK etc. One thing I'm curious is if you'll be able to make the android version on PC, since talking with other android devs they said the windows SDK is totally broken and they had to install linux to work on it.

Not a problem for me since I'm going to switch completely to linux next week as soon as my new PC arrives, but could be a problem for many people here.

[Jake]

AH didn't know about that special case, interesting :)

As it goes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_hinting
As I understand it, it's something that isn't particularly easy to automate, so it's often done at least partly by hand... meaning that a lot of cheaper/free fonts just don't have hinting to any large degree, so they don't render particularly well on screens, particularly at lower point sizes where it's more obvious.

One thing I'm curious is if you'll be able to make the android version on PC, since talking with other android devs they said the windows SDK is totally broken and they had to install linux to work on it.

Just out of interest, do you know what the problems were? I know a couple of guys who've been doing Android dev on Windows PCs... but also bear in mind that a lot of types of problem could potentially be sidestepped by just pre-compiling the Android-specific parts of Ren'Py and providing those binaries to users to overlay their game-specific parts - written in Python and Ren'Py code, which presumably doesn't need to be specifically compiled for the Android. Then all that needs to be done is packaging the whole thing up into a distributable for Android, whatever form that takes.

[DaFool]

There seems to be DivX-certified android phones that can play back 720p videos, while others can record videos in 720p and output via HDMI. But the screen resolutions are around 854 x 480. What does that mean for games? Is it still recommended for devs to adopt the native pixel resolution for optimum performance? Or just take the one-size-fits-all HD resolution and be done with it (as well as be future-proof)? Of course making a game in HD doesn't mean using teeny tiny fonts, but making sure everything is readable from a distance, i.e. from couches.

[IceD]

I think it's just a matter of correct proportions - not resolutions, nor sizes.

[PyTom]

I'll note that for many of these issues, the right answer is to experiment and find out what works, rather than trying to decide without data.

My goal is to get most of Ren'Py supported on Android, but there likely will be portions that are not supported. For example, while Dissolve will work, ImageDissolve/AlphaDissolve/AlphaBlend probably won't. I'm not sure about movie playback. Sound/Music will likely work, but there may be some limitations on it (like how many channels we allow).

That being said, a lot of things will work. Transforms should, as should screens and ui functions, and, of course, the basic VN functionality.

[jack_norton]

Just out of interest, do you know what the problems were? I know a couple of guys who've been doing Android dev on Windows PCs... but also bear in mind that a lot of types of problem could potentially be sidestepped by just pre-compiling the Android-specific parts of Ren'Py and providing those binaries to users to overlay their game-specific parts - written in Python and Ren'Py code, which presumably doesn't need to be specifically compiled for the Android. Then all that needs to be done is packaging the whole thing up into a distributable for Android, whatever form that takes.

Basically just everything. Even the examples that comes from the windows SDK were broken/non working. Another dev said that the solution to getting windows SDK to work is... to install linux one
I don't know if they're doing any special low-level stuff though. I know one is trying to port a gamedevelopment library on it, so surely is something similar to Ren'Py.
This was about 2-3 weeks ago, maybe by now they found the solution or the SDK was fixed/updated.

[jack_norton]

http://gizmodo.com/5633721/apple-to-all ... guidelines
haven't had time to read it, but maybe under those new guidelines a Ren'Py iphone/ipad is still possible?

[Counter Arts]

http://gizmodo.com/5633721/apple-to-all ... guidelines
haven't had time to read it, but maybe under those new guidelines a Ren'Py iphone/ipad is still possible?

Looks like they might be worried that they'll lose market share to the android. I was considering moving from a blackberry to an android because it looks like an open iPhone.

[DaFool]

I think it's more because they need to support Unreal Engine, Unity, and idtech5 so they can keep the big dev houses developing for them. iOS devices are eating into the handheld market so it wouldn't be surprising that they need all the bigger players to maintain dominance against Nintendo and Sony.

This news just means to me "Ok, now I can port my crap to this platform. I should probably be jumping for joy."

[Crocosquirrel]

I think it's more because they need to support Unreal Engine, Unity, and idtech5 so they can keep the big dev houses developing for them. iOS devices are eating into the handheld market so it wouldn't be surprising that they need all the bigger players to maintain dominance against Nintendo and Sony.

This.

Apple's been having issues keeping customers since the Droid phones hit, and Steve's found himself in Bill Gates territory (The iPhone is the Great Ebil to the bulk of self-conscious Geeks, not unlike WinDoze). Plus, Droid owners can switch Carriers whenever, and they aren't stuck with AT&T (which pleases them). Restricting the AppStore to C-based Apps from Apple's SDK only offends those who code Python, Ruby, Perl, VBasic, Java or Flash and eschew C for most purposes. Myself, I rather like Python, now that I have an excuse to learn it (Renpy FTW!).

Oh, and this is the last thing I needed to justify getting a Droid...

[Topagae]

"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."

[Mikan]

My phone awaits.
There are already some VNs and RPGs for android.