Coincidental? Blurry Line Between Influence and Plagarism

[Twisted-Eva]

The whole idea that two or more people who came up with a similar concept is probably a discussion that has been done a long time. From art to writing has there been so many "influences" or claims to an original concept never concieved in its time.

I'm gonna start off this thread with a potentially long post since right now... I'm bored. After looking around the forums and then some, I noticed that there are plenty of seemingly original ideas which, to me, are original because I have yet to see another project with similar concepts. It's fair to say that maybe it's just pure coincidence that two people came up with the same or near-identical concept and neither of them came in contact with one another's idea. Or, there's the negative way of seeing that coincidence as plagarism if a totally "original" idea came out and then shortly after, someone else displays a work that copies the idea point-for-point and there's no difference. After frequently looking at the Idea Dump thread, the creator of the thread mentioned about how ideas posted on that thread can not be copyrighted because no one can really "copyright" ideas. Yeah, someone can copyright the art or the music because it would be unfair for others who could get away with blatantly copying almost every aspect of that work. But ideas are ideas and they're not in a materialized or visible form so it's not like "Star Wars" or "Star Trek" (whichever came first), for example, can copyright the idea of wars being fought in space just because no other party has come up with the idea.

Art, on the other hand, appears to be in the gray zone when artists admit they have influences that led an artwork of theirs to look similar to another existing artwork whether it's the color scheme or the layout of the artwork. I'm pretty sure no one can copyright an artwork or an art style, because it's a matter of personal expression.

Then again, I've seen a handful of shojo manga where the girls' eyes are drawn similarly, but not exactly. For me, that's the blurring line between telling which artist is which. What frustrated me though, is how my high school art teacher made a ban on drawing anything similar to "generic" anime and manga in art I, but that was quickly lifted in art II and beyond. I get the whole idea of deveoping one's style, but I'd rather have my drawing style come to me rather than forcibly draw some part of my art differently. I mean come on! I can't get away with drawing my own thing which isn't even remotely influenced from any kind of manga style since I suck at copying. But some chick in my advanced art class can get away with drawing Hetalia characters with a slightly more "American cartooney" style with sharper angles at the cheeks and such? My art teacher probably thought her work was original unless she told him that her art is based off of some anime-related work including Hetalia and Vocaloid. I do think, however, that there are definitely a handful of visual novels with very similar line art and color schemes in the process of making CG artwork. That's probably where my art teacher was coming from. Then again, I bet it's just unintentional bias from his former occupation working as an illustrator for Dreamworks.

Ah, I'm veering off-topic now... Anyways, yeah... discussion about this since we're all fellow developers of fictional (or not?) works.

[LVUER]

Perhaps your art teacher want you to draw with realistic style for beginning? Since that style is the best for everyone who start learning art/drawing. I didn't learn it though, since I was self-learning everything... and I regret it that I didn't learn realistic style.

For similar idea, some people say that there is no such thing like original... since who knows someone already think something similar to your so-called original story/concept. The most important thing is the execution. If someone create something that really similar to that whole execution, then it's called plagiarism.

[Aleema]

I'm one of those types of people who don't really get flattered when I'm imitated. I think it comes from a rash of plagiarism I battled on the internet many years ago even right now -_-. I know in some cultures, imitation is the best form of flattery blah blah, but all I see is Zynga and other casual game empires that rip off the one guy who had a genuine new idea and clone it for the same success whenever I see something being clearly "inspired" by another thing. It's not "good job buddy I wanna be just like you" -- it's leeching, in my mind. Of course, that's purely in the business department, and business ethics are not my ethics, so whatever. But back to the point, hints of that sort of attitude strike me when something I've either done personally or respect from someone else is clearly what "inspired" someone else's work with no mention to the source whatsoever. And the examples in my mind aren't even far stretches for you to see the similarities, or something only the creator could link -- blatant copies with slightly changed elements.

But that's life and human nature, and unfortunately an important part of it. It's how we pass down traditions and knowledge. If kids didn't imitate their parents, then the human race would significantly reset every generation. That's how ideas spread over continents (Hetalia is from Japan, making an influence in whatever country you are from) and affect a whole world -- and our race in general. And considering it spread, it's probably a good thing that needs spreading. Whether it's at someone's expense or not is if the creator chooses it to be.

[Auro-Cyanide]

I am pretty sure your art teachers point had nothing to do with banning you from copying styles or whatever. It probably had a lot more to do with forcing you to learn the basics first. They probably wouldn't have flinched if you had drawn influence from Mucha or Vermer. You could probably even convince them if you were using manga/anime influenced 'high' art. I am using 'high' for lack of a better word. Too many people copy manga and anime styles without realising that the styles are overly simplistic because they are involved in animation and sequential art. For still images, it would be better to not only draw influence from these styles, but also lessons on colour theory and form from other art works. Basically people tend to miss over 2/3 of their art education and will be stunted because of it. They often miss basic lessons in anatomy, colour, technique, medium, perspective etc. Style is only a fraction of what there is too learn.

As for influence vs plagiarism. I find influence fine. I do not believe you can come up with 'original' ideas. The human mind is pretty incapable of it. We always base it off of something. However, people should always try and draw from multiple influences and blend them to create something that is unique. Drawing solely from one influence will more often then not come off as plagiarism and will be rather obvious. However, if you take a bit here and a bit there and you figure out how to make it work and be strong, then you deserve it. It is true that you can not copyright ideas (though you can patent them). You also can't copyright colours, poses, styles etc. You can not honestly copy something though. If you take a colour scheme AND a composition from one image, you are probably pushing it unless your concept is different.

And then you have stuff like parodies. But that is a different story.

[Twisted-Eva]

Haha! I'm probably just really critical over this whole art teacher thing. I did attempt to draw realistically, so it's not like I did try to deviate from instructions. Though, the only things he complimented from time to time was the shading/lighting and color palette... And he never taught us how to draw proper anatomy or humans right. He only taught us lighting source... Nowadays, I hear he can be pretty evil sometimes. He's a nice person in reality, but now... my younger brother said the art teacher wanted to burn one of my brother's artwork even though my brother claimed he put a lot of effort despite lacking any artistic skill. Joke? Who knows?

[Sakura02]

I've graduated with the 4yr Bachelors in Fine Arts, doing traditional art all the way through BUT they still haven't beaten the anime style out of me yet AHAHA . They tried really hard.. Lol
This is my opinion on this which I'm sure a lot of people might either agree or disagree.

1.Draw what you love to draw. F** everyone else.
I'm going to use an academic example
You see this guy--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Lichtenstein
Pretty much directly copied American comic book stuff that wasn't even his but his paintings are worth millions and he's in history book as a famous artist in pop art movement.


Let's face it everyone is inspired by some art style somewhere, even though the majority of us like to think that our style is 100% original and unique, it's not. BUT what makes your art stronger and stand out is putting your own spin on it, or combining different techniques you learn from other artists. Then that's when someone can look at your art and in 10 seconds be like, oh this artist drew it. That's the kind of art you should strive for if you want to be 'acknowledged' by the public and by other artists.

I personally define Plagarism is when you copy something and you're in denial, and/or the person you copied from does not approve and you did not get permission.
I have a friend who draws just like 'Bleedman'/ Snafu Comics (if you guys ever heard of them). At first I was like wow you have no style of your own its just a direct copy? Then he actually showed them his art and they loved it which I thought was quite surprising. Because some artists are protective over their styles, but I learnt that actually some of us just don't care, as long as you are drawing it with your own hand and not copying their work and saying its yours. If someone took my work and said they drew it I'd be like WTF!! >:0, but if someone copies my style and drew it on their own I'd be like, ok whatever :p

--

My advice to you is, is just do what the professors tell you to do. You will learn a lot from them, but keep doing what you love to do on your own time. Art is about passion and expressing yourself, not necessarily trying to be ass-kisser to what others want you to draw. Well, unless you're getting paid LOL, or drawing something for someone... then that's another story. In your classes you're essentially drawing for your professors, not always for yourself so you need to do what they tell you to do and take their advice with a grain of salt. However, by doing that you will find yourself being a well rounded artist. Knowing how to draw realism is important. Personally I don't really like realism, I like the expressive quality of anime and cartoon characters that you can't really get with a realistic character, but that's my own tastes.^_^

A little rant if you are still reading this already long post XD

Sadly because there are a lot of ... not so good anime art out there, by people who aren't serious artists, but just fans who just mimic it. the rest of us who are serious about anime as a style get blown off. In one of my classes when I had to carve an image for a block print, essentially we could have done whatever we wanted (well that's what all professors say). I didn't even draw a big eyed anime character i just drew the stylized shape of the body,head and hair. My professor essentially though it was crap, but to sugar coat it he was like 'Um I notice you draw this style a lot and I think it'd be better if maybe you did something else ya know' (I never submitted an anime drawing in my classes prior to this btw) So I was like Ok whatever. BUT!! WTF I look over another student was drawing a Marvel style superhero type character. Oh and that's perfectly fine.. -__- bias much . Whatever, I pride myself on being a well-rounded artist.

Ok I'm done ^_^;

[Mirage]

My advice to you is, is just do what the professors tell you to do. You will learn a lot from them, but keep doing what you love to do on your own time. Art is about passion and expressing yourself, not necessarily trying to be ass-kisser to what others want you to draw. Well, unless you're getting paid LOL, or drawing something for someone... then that's another story. In your classes you're essentially drawing for your professors, not always for yourself so you need to do what they tell you to do and take their advice with a grain of salt. However, by doing that you will find yourself being a well rounded artist. Knowing how to draw realism is important. Personally I don't really like realism, I like the expressive quality of anime and cartoon characters that you can't really get with a realistic character, but that's my own tastes.^_^

I also graduated with bachelor in fine arts. All the instructors in my school hated anime as far as I know. Few tolerate them, but they usually discouraged us to draw. AND I completely hated that. So I ended challenging all the instructors by doing what I did best. It's very satisfying when I made every one of them shut up. XD No really, it's like they never seen really beautiful anime arts. It's narrow minded to consider them all crap. I agree that we should extend our horizon by studying other form of arts, and this SHOULD also apply to these instructors, not just the students. By denying anime as art, I can only see them as hypocrites.