virgins....

[JackalAndromeda]

Female cats don't enjoy it much, but at least their partner doesn't bite off their head in the middle of the act!

Oh yeah. Okay, not worst *ever*. Looking back, I do wish I didn't post. I type the dumbest things late at night.

[papillon]

Aw, a few dumb posts are better than no posts.

(not that your posts ARE dumb, just that even if they are, SOME dumb is better than nothing at all. It's when people post twenty dumb posts a night that it's a problem. )

As for the Quantum Leap thing - I have read at least one fanfic that involved a character trying to see what futures she would have with various potential love interests, so her mind ends up being briefly cast into those future timelines. And the scene she leapt into with one of them was a bedroom scene, within an established and practised relationship. So she did manage to be not a virgin physically during her first experience mentally.

Sort of damages the suspense of whether you will or won't manage to get together, though, if you've already seen your happy future.

[Wolfrider]

You guys must see Latin-America, if you can analize this topic in our culture -without becoming crazy-, you are pros.

Anyway, if you are making a game and are planning to include a topic as hard as this in the story, a little reading on psicology is a must. There are very different reactions, people that don't cares, and people that don't even thought of a girl if he knows that she is not a virgin. People with strong religious convictions that not only avoid the girl, but also humilliates her for that reason. Even her relationship with her familiy and friends can be of inffluence in her behavior. Some girls talk about her 'problem', others never talk, and others don't think on it as a 'problem'.

Personally, i started university at fifteen, and... the university girls resulted more conservative than the schoolgirls. Innocence can be relative, schoolgirls don't think so seriously in some topics, some people can misunderstand that naive-ness as malice. University girls think seriously about this, and change her behavior to reflect this. (this was only my impression)

On other topic, University girls want to be schoolgirls; and schoolgirls want to be university girls, i don't understand this.

[lordcloudx]

on the subject of rape:
In my country, raping someone means either reclusion perpetua (40 years I think. I need to brush up on my criminal law) or death. Of course, since no one has ever heard of "girl eventually enjoys it" but initially forced sex, like in the vast majority of h-games, you can get acquited if you can prove the girl enjoyed it and she' of legal age.

back to the original topic.
In real life, I don't really care if she's a virgin or not as long as I like her.

but in hentai games... I think it's kinda nice to know that you ended up with a virgin. (I'd still consider her a virgin if a single rape was her first experience)

btw wolfrider you forgot to mention another type of person: people who pretend that they don't care if that the girl is not a virgin just to look cool and mature about it. In short, the hypocrites. Hehe I think it's a good idea to have a very irritating antagonist like that in a game. Then he could get what's coming to him when the main character or one of the girls beats him up or pokes some pencils into his eyes.

[papillon]

Or that lovely legal ruling in Italy recently... apparently raping a 14 year old isn't really traumatic for her because she had had sex before!

*shakes head*

It really does depend on the culture you're in.

[ShiraiJunichi]

It really does depend on the culture you're in.

I think America used to be like that unfortunately. Back when rape victims were belittled, and suppressed. If you weren't a virgin, it wasn't such a big deal, because it wasn't like you hadn't just given it away before. However, I think feminism has succeeded in almost eradicating this train of thought- at least in the justice department.

[Wolfrider]

Lordcloux is right, i forgot to mention the hypocrites. Not only boys, also girls that margine other girls by this and other reasons. (In my country, there are many hypocrite girls, it's a matter of culture -as Papillion Said-, a girl that covers in lies is better that one that says the truth about her troubles)

Virginity, -at least where i live- is 'THE' topic among young people in hormonal age. And very few people is of the 'I don't care' type.

End, as a commentary on the rape subject: In my country some time ago the laws were very 'easy'; then in an intent to stop the sexual crimes, they made it harder (now, a 20 - 40 years)... and the sex-crime rates shooted to the sky in matter of weeks! (more than doubled!)

I am starting to think that they like the prison, or something. (Need to read more psicology)

[PyTom]

End, as a commentary on the rape subject: In my country some time ago the laws were very 'easy'; then in an intent to stop the sexual crimes, they made it harder (now, a 20 - 40 years)... and the sex-crime rates shooted to the sky in matter of weeks! (more than doubled!)

I am starting to think that they like the prison, or something. (Need to read more psicology)

Other ideas:

- Stiffer penalties caused more women to report more incidences of rape, as the penalties are now percieved to overcome what some might see as the damage to her reputation.

- Similarly, the prosecutors prosecute more, as it's now considered a "real crime".

[Akimaru]

Or that lovely legal ruling in Italy recently... apparently raping a 14 year old isn't really traumatic for her because she had had sex before!

In some ways i have to agree with the ruling for a reduced sentence.
It's hard to determine if a rape victim is severely traumatized or not.
But I think in most cases a virgin would be more emotionally damaged than someone who had sex before.
I think it's because people treasure their first time for everything. If the first time you had sex was forcefully by a rapist it would shock you more than your 1000th time.
Just like that US soldier who was the first to die in Iraq...why would he be more special than the 25th or 600th guy?

[papillon]

Probably so, but - It's pretty hard to judge other people's traumas effectively and say whether one is more traumatic than another - it's just not that easy to know. There's life experience to consider too - an older person who has seen more of the world and understands horrible things is probably going to be less affected than a teenager, but not necessarily. And the typical 80-year-old grandmothers that get randomly raped by very mean house-burglars are probably not consoled by greater life experience.

All things considered, I'd rather not try to figure out who is MORE traumatised than anyone else.

I object to the lawyer claiming that the girl was not really traumatised at ALL because of her lack of virginity, and I object to the idea of being able to get a different sentence for committing the exact same crime on two different people*.



* - Yes, this annoys me about hate crime legislation as well. It's unfair. Beating a guy's head in is illegal no matter what color or sexuality he is. I don't understand the desire to claim that it was "racially motivated" because one guy was white and one was black, and therefore deserves a higher penalty. Beating a guy's head in is wrong anyway! ANY reason you had for doing it was clearly a stupid evil reason!

'hate crime' stuff should only really come up when dealing with things like painting a swastika on someone's house, where the racial motivation actually makes a difference in the effect of the crime.

But boy, am I getting off topic!

[Glasskitten]

*flagrantly misuses Dark Powers of Necromancy*
Uh...since I am finally starting to grow up and accept the idea of eventually finding a nice straight man to marry, I might as well add my own views on this issue...

I refuse to sleep with anyone who has consentually participated in a sexual act prior to the consummation of our marriage.
*pauses for effect*
My reasoning is this:
1. My religion forbids extramarital sex, so a person who had been involved in it would probably have a belief system that would not be compatible enough with mine for us to live together on a day-to-day basis.
2. If he had been married and divorced, I would worry about the emotional baggage that would come along with that. Even if all feelings for his previous wife had vanished without a trace, he would always have the memories of another woman, and therefore a standard of comparison to judge me against. I have never even been on a date at this point, and he would probably notice my inexperience on many different levels. [As an aside, I think that if I were divorced, I would probably not remarry. My mother has never had the urge to introduce another man into her life after her marriage failed miserably, and even if I got a better catch than she did, I cannot imagine learning to trust somebody with my feelings all over again.]
3. As an extension of the above point, I would surely not know what I was doing the first time...but if he does not either, that puts us at an even level where neither of us can judge the other. From there on, anything we learn, we learn together as husband and wife and will be able to apply specifically to the only intimate relationship we plan on having.
4. Where has that thing been???


As for unconsentual sex...well, I guess that cannot be helped (although it is a lot harder for it to happen to a male than a female), and thus it would be completely irrational for me to hold it against my partner. I would, however, worry that I was unfit to provide the additional support he might need after experiencing something so traumatic, and anyone who knows me (that includes, uh...two family members and my Higher Power...so far...) can attest to the fact that I am already drowning in my (possibly well-justified) paranoia that I am an inadequate companion. I certainly hope that I would be able to help in such a situation...


And, on a final note, the thought of my life partner having fun making me bleed scares me to death. (Why do only females bleed the first time?) But I still might try having a proper marriage someday, assuming I find somebody who is worth it.

Why in the blazes did I just write all of that? Somebody please ban me before I do anything even more embarassing...

[mikey]

Well, I can understand a lot of those points, to be honest. Me and my wife, we're not religious, but we were each other's firsts (no dates, girl/boyfriends before that and we married only after 10 years of being together), but it's a special kind of bond that it creates, not having previous experience and all that, it seems to be something to be afraid of, but it isn't, it makes you a stronger couple, because you share all of your important memories. And you don't look back with embarassment or anything.

[monele]

it makes you a stronger couple, because you share all of your important memories. And you don't look back with embarassment or anything.

Very good point ^^

[papillon]

Personal styles differ. If both you and your chosen partner feel that it's important, then it IS important, and it will help draw the two of you together.

Depending on the community you're looking in, you might find it difficult to find someone that shares your values, but the same can be said *whatever* your values are, and if religion is already important to you then you're already planning to spend effort looking for just the right person.

Some people would rather take the time to experiment so that they can know that their eventual choice is the best possible choice for them. Some people don't want to marry at all, and would rather have a large network of very close friends to share their feelings with. Some people want three wives. (I have not seen "Big Love" but a girl I went to school with is playing one of the wives!) As the Vulcans say, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

[ShiraiJunichi]

Big Love...
*google google*
hmm... looks like trash that's just trying to perpetuate the misunderstanding of Mormons and polygamy. The show is advertised as

This is the story of a Mormon man, Bill Henrickson, living in Salt Lake City with his three wives, three houses, and three families.

Which is completely impossible. He can't be Mormon. Anyone with multiple wives would be swiftly excommunicated. Mormon polygamist is an oxymoron.
Anyway, I don't buy into this need for experiment, or need for compatibility testing. Cohabitation has become the norm now days, because people want to make sure that they are "compatible". I guess for others with different values it may seem reasonable, but to me, it's ludicrous.

glasskitten>> Have more faith in yourself. Guys who share your values may be more difficult to find, but they're searching for girls who share their values as well. So seek us, and we in turn will seek you. We're bound to meet in the middle somewhere along the line. You've got to be positive.