RIVER TRAP [released]

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mikey · #76 Post by **mikey** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:37 pm

Blackspider, snowballinhell >> I tried to analyze/show how much Akemi would change after becoming AKEMI. And also how Shizuka could change under Akemi's influence... They are happy, but both (all three) in different ways if Shigeko chooses them. Some people criticised the fact, that RT can have a real incest ending (not just your stepsister), but I really insisted on including it, because it just emerged from the story and I think excluding that type of ending would hurt the freedom of choice for the player. Maybe that doesn't make RT politically correct, but I didn't make it to be like that. What makes me happy is that most of the people got the endings they wanted/liked.

I didn't want it to be sad with any ending. Moody perhaps, but not sad.

Guest · #77 Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:42 am

mikey wrote: Some people criticised the fact, that RT can have a real incest ending (not just your stepsister), but I really insisted on including it, because it just emerged from the story and I think excluding that type of ending would hurt the freedom of choice for the player. Maybe that doesn't make RT politically correct, but I didn't make it to be like that. .

In all honesty, I was somewhat disturbed but also impressed at the gutsiness and emotional honesty of that decision. From the first scene, I figured there'd be some kind of twist (cop-out, put less kindly) where Shizuka turns out somehow to not be your biological sister or something, so being with her is 'not' nudge nudge wink wink incest. Which would be the safe, reassuring way to do it. AKEMI might have looked like somewhat along those lines, but the fact that there's still a Shizuka ending demonstrates otherwise.

snowballinhell · #78 Post by **snowballinhell** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:47 am

Anonymous wrote:
mikey wrote: Some people criticised the fact, that RT can have a real incest ending (not just your stepsister), but I really insisted on including it, because it just emerged from the story and I think excluding that type of ending would hurt the freedom of choice for the player. Maybe that doesn't make RT politically correct, but I didn't make it to be like that. .
In all honesty, I was somewhat disturbed but also impressed at the gutsiness and emotional honesty of that decision. From the first scene, I figured there'd be some kind of twist (cop-out, put less kindly) where Shizuka turns out somehow to not be your biological sister or something, so being with her is 'not' nudge nudge wink wink incest. Which would be the safe, reassuring way to do it. AKEMI might have looked like somewhat along those lines, but the fact that there's still a Shizuka ending demonstrates otherwise.

Above anonymous poster, hiding controversial views behind an inscrutable 'Guest' pseudonym, was I, snowballinhell!

Mumble mumble stupid-forgetting-to-log-in mumble mumble...

BlackSpider · #79 Post by **BlackSpider** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:59 am

Yes, that was a brave decision. If I were the author I wouldn't do it for instance. At the end you'd find out that Shizuka is not your biological sister

. To be honest, the fact that Shizuka was my sister prevented me to "go for her" when I played the game for the first time and acted as I would act in real life. If at some point I could discover that she's not my biological sister, I'd definitely choose her. Why? Because this is really true love. I mean, when you need the person you love so much that you can't live without that person. I don't really care whether it's healthy or not. Perhaps it's not. It may cause you a lot of trouble, but I think it's better to live something great than accept the average.

mikey · #80 Post by **mikey** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:59 pm

I'm really glad that finally we are talking about this, because I was kind of curious about what people thought about it, so...

While I was working at a game-making company we had the idea of our main character dying, but obviously while that was perfectly justified by the story (and its logical ending), we had to have the publisher in mind, expecting this and that, so it put some restraints on us. With RT I never thought of any restrictions (I never had them) and it made sense in this setting to allow an ending with Shizuka. And since the choice would really be hard, despite your love for her, the player would have to explicitly choose a statement admitting he loved her, so in my opinion, you will not choose Shizuka by accident.

BlackSpider · #81 Post by **BlackSpider** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:19 am

And that's why I really like fan made games. The author can create just anything. He's not limited by some restraints given by the publisher or anyone else.

Taleweaver · #82 Post by **Taleweaver** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:36 pm

If I were the author I wouldn't do it for instance. At the end you'd find out that Shizuka is not your biological sister

Incidentally, that's the way "Kana Imouto" (Kana - Little Sister), one of the greates VNs ever, does it. In the end, that's why the love between you and Kana has a chance... and in 5 of the six endings, it is also the reason why it does NOT have a chance - the bittersweet things are what makes that other huge professional game great. But I digress...

As for "River Trap", I didn't have many problems confessing the player's love to Shizuka because the story didn't dwell on the "incest" theme much. Most choices in the game revolve around "choosing your girlfriend in your sister's body" and only in the very end, there is the "true Shizuka choice". Had the theme been more explicit towards loving the PERSON that is your sister and not someone in her BODY, it might have been different.

BlackSpider · #83 Post by **BlackSpider** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:07 pm

I absolutely agree here. Although the player knows Shizuka is his sister, the "incest" theme wasn't really exposed. Besides, as I've already written, Shizuka's ending is not really a brother-sister ending, since Akemi's soul is supposed to be trapped inside Shizuka... But still, if I took it seriously I'd say it's not entirely healthy

.

mikey · #84 Post by **mikey** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:20 pm

BlackSpider wrote:Shizuka's ending is not really a brother-sister ending, since Akemi's soul is supposed to be trapped inside Shizuka...

That would be AKEMI then. There is a genuine Shizuka ending, when AKEMI jumps off the bridge and the yellow-portrayed soul (Shizuka) returns back to her body. Later, Shigeko's flashes are green, because now it is AKEMI trapped in the river. My main aim was to portray AKEMI though (that's why there is a part seen from her perspective).

BlackSpider · #85 Post by **BlackSpider** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:53 pm

Mikey, can you tell me what ending nr was "the genuine Shizuka ending". I didn't get all 8 endings and I'm a little confused now.

#86 Post by **PyTom** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:58 pm

I believe I got this ending last night, and it was 8 of 8.

BlackSpider · #87 Post by **BlackSpider** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:55 pm

Looks like I need to pay more attention at what ending exactly I get while playing your games Mikey

. While going fot Shizuka I got ending nr 8 (shopping ending) for the first time and then I got ending nr 7 (Yukiyama ending). Guess I went too fast through the text because at first glance I didn't really notice a big difference between them. Both seemed like happy endings with Shizuka.

mikey · #88 Post by **mikey** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:29 pm

BlackSpider>> No, that's okay, I knew there was going to be some confusion because there were 3 personalities and 2 bodies (hence Akemi and AKEMI). If you recall the one AKEMI ending (Movies, Ending 2) she changed her look (hair, earings etc...) because she wanted her personality to remain, that was the only visible change in the game.

BlackSpider · #89 Post by **BlackSpider** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:40 pm

Can't recall that ending since I never had it

. One good reason to play RT once again.

... · #90 Post by **...** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:48 pm

Well I wish that I could post something about the game but unfortenetly I can't seem to play it. My comp doesn't seem to know what program is needed to use it. Any help would be appreciated.

PS: I downloaded RT all at once with the one file option.

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