Ren'Py vs kirikiri2

[Kuroneko_rg]

On another forum I've been asked several times if Ren'Py was as powerful as kirikiri2.
Well, to be more exact, I've been asked if you could make a Fate/Stay Night quality game using Ren'Py.

My answer was always yes, as I saw no real reason why you can't make something of such level using Ren'Py.

However, I started to hesitate lately. As I'm not aware how much powerful kirikiri2 is, I'm not sure anymore if Ren'Py is on a fair
level with it.

Are they equal?
Is Ren'Py superior? Why?
Is kirikiri2 superior? Why?

I would appreciate if someone with far more knowledge on these engines could clarify my doubts.

[Camille]

Personally, I think Ren'Py is superior just based on the fact that kirikiri games only work on Windows computers. D: But I can't really think of anything that's in Fate/Stay Night that isn't also achievable in Ren'Py, anyway.

[Hijiri]

Having looked at a couple of game's made of the kirikiri2 engine (Gothic Delusion and atled -Everlasting Song- to be specific) kirikiri2 is like a buffed up version of Ren'Py. However, the only thing keeping people in the english-speaking, or in that matter, any non-japanese country, from using it is because the documentation for it has yet to be translated.

[Graph]

I'm pretty sure the kinds of image operations used in Fate/Stay Night can be reproduced in Ren'py. Nothing computationally complex, just very well-sequenced. (Although, looking at the screens Hijiri posted, I'm not sure if you can do that header bar like Gothic Delusion.)

I'm curious on how good the performance is though. There are some points when the effects show up kind of rapid-fire and there's no obvious loading time even on my previous computer. I especially think that in most professional VNs I've played, fast-forwarding feels smoother than what you get from Ren'py by default. Does anyone know what programming language is used as kirikiri's base?

[yu1988]

I still prefer Renpy for its easy usage.

[PyTom]

I'd be interested in knowing the specifics of features that KK can do and Ren'Py can't.

[ThisIsNoName]

Does anyone know what programming language is used as kirikiri's base?

From browsing the source code ,it looks like it's built on C++, but uses its own scripting language (TJS2). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[mugenjohncel]

My two pesos...

Ren'py is powerful and flexible enough to be used way beyond it's intended purpose (visual novel creation)... that alone is a big whooping plus compared against other similar engines. Not to mention the now comprehensive documentation in English makes it easier to simply jump in and type "hello world" in Ren'py and have it displayed on your screen...

"POOF" (Disappears)

[Samu-kun]

I especially think that in most professional VNs I've played, fast-forwarding feels smoother than what you get from Ren'py by default.

You do know that you can speed up the fast forward speed on renpy from the default, right?

Code: Select all

config.skip_delay

Some of the more obvious features renpy lacks which are now the industry standard are:
-Option to control the transparency of the message box in the options menu.
-Fading in text
-More advanced save/load system (Naming save files, deleting save files, duplicating save files)

And renpy is very still very limited in video playback in that just adding a video might cause the game to not function.

[PyTom]

-Option to control the transparency of the message box in the options menu.

Style preferences allow you to have this in Ren'Py.

-Fading in text

A fair cop, although this is something I plan to add as soon as I can kill the software renderer in favor of Mesa.

-More advanced save/load system (Naming save files, deleting save files, duplicating save files)

Ren'Py at least lets you delete a save file, by pressing delete over a save slot.

[Samu-kun]

Style preferences allow you to have this in Ren'Py.

Why not just include it in the options menu by default? It's pretty much as standard now as the option to control the text speed.

Ren'Py at least lets you delete a save file, by pressing delete over a save slot.

I... did not know that. Been using renpy for nearly four years and I never knew it was that simple. o_o;

[Graph]

You do know that you can speed up the fast forward speed on renpy from the default, right?

Code: Select all

config.skip_delay

Actually, I didn't. Thanks for that. I run into some performance bottlenecks because I do stuff that's too visual-intensive, so I didn't even consider that the speed was intentional. The rate is a little imprecise, but at least I can set the skip speed to something fast enough that my sprites don't show up in weird places while skipping.

To be fair, even though I keep going on about performance I've played a few otherwise high-quality VNs that appear to lag during animation sequences, though I don't know if any of those were kirikiri. Although the closer it was to last Fall, the more likely it was because of my old laptop choking.

[papillon]

You can name your saves in RenPy with a bit of poking at the code; Spiky and I have been doing it for a while.

(insert standard whining about the problems of letting go of software rendering, because you've heard all that before.

[nyaatrap]

Actually, just a script difference. ren'py is using Python. KK2 is using java-based original language. Just that.
The strong point of kk2 has and ren'py hasn't is history. KK2 has tremendous custom scripts added by many semi-professional programmers, but ren'py not have yet.
BTW, default KK2 provided by the developer is really poor. It only allows to make a VN 15 years ago if no customized.

[TrickWithAKnife]

I don't know so much about Kirikiri, and I'm not trying to brown-nose, but having the software engine creator be a very active, sharing member of the community is kind of a big deal to me.

I had tried a lot of different software packages before discovering Ren'Py.
Some of them were really good, but the support didn't go much further than a user's manual or a FAQ.
For a beginner like myself, that makes a world of difference.

Personally I've had more than my fair share of questions about how to use Ren'Py. PyTom has offered advice in more than half.

Another big deal is the community. It's so rare to find such a helpful community on the Internet.
For us game-making beginners, that is also a big deal.

I don't know what the technical advantages of Kirikiri are, but to be honest, I don't care.
As far as free engines go, Unreal Engine 4 is far superior. But whats the point of using the best if you can't figure how to work it?

I hope that the updates will keep coming for Ren'py. I'm a little surprised I haven't seen any donation button, or link to a Ren'Py kickstarter project yet.