What is with the lack of interest in BxB games ;=;?

[papillon]

it's just that a heterosexual game developer making games for other heterosexuals is just going to naturally lean towards and ultimately feel more informed and comfortable towards heterosexual perspectives

I believe a large number of yaoi fans and readers ARE heterosexual, though.

However, remembering how my gay male friends fell over laughing after reading some of the slashfic I enjoy (Not stuff I'd written. I've never actually written slash. Yet.) does make me feel a bit nervous about approaching the subject, given my lack of direct experience with being male. For that matter, I've read some yaoi that had me screaming "BIOLOGY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!" at it.

The next chapter of Magical Diary will definitely have BxB options. Whether anyone but me will find them acceptable, I don't know yet.

There are BL forums. There are big slash communities. They're just not HERE, at the moment.

[Fawn]

I feel like a black sheep, being a girl into BxG... I've never actually seen the point of yaoi. I'll never be able to experience it since I'm female; and to be honest a lot of the protagonist characters just look like flatchested short-haired girls... I could get that in an otome or even a BxG game.

Since I'm a girl I much prefer GxG as well. Much easier to understand how it feels ;3

[teacup]

I feel like a black sheep, being a girl into BxG... I've never actually seen the point of yaoi.

Don't feel alone! I'm a girl, but I always tend to play BxG games over GxB ones. And I'm attracted to guys :p
That said, BxB, BxG, GxB... whatever it is doesn't matter to me. If the game grabs me with an interesting story, why should it matter who the romance is between?
I have never played a BxB game because the ones that are available have failed to grab my attention, but that's not to say I'm not willing to play one! If there were a more diverse selection of BxB games, I bet you'd see a lot more interest in them.

[armornick]

I feel like a black sheep, being a girl into BxG... I've never actually seen the point of yaoi.

Don't feel alone! I'm a girl, but I always tend to play BxG games over GxB ones. And I'm attracted to guys :p
That said, BxB, BxG, GxB... whatever it is doesn't matter to me. If the game grabs me with an interesting story, why should it matter who the romance is between?
I have never played a BxB game because the ones that are available have failed to grab my attention, but that's not to say I'm not willing to play one! If there were a more diverse selection of BxB games, I bet you'd see a lot more interest in them.

Seconded, except that I very much prefer GxG over anything (I'm a guy ). I don't particularly dislike BxB, but it's hard to find ones that are good for me to enjoy. Not that the quality is bad, but I prefer BxB to be less explicit.

[Greeny]

I'm quite tired of all these games whose only real focus is the ?x? bit.

A good, well-placed romance can make any game complete, but why do we need to make it the only focus?
Sure, all these games have their unique setting/set-up, but it's just become a lie. Once the story sets off these
non-romance related things get mostly neclected in favor of having another oppertunity to make it clear to
the game which guy/girl you're going to go for, despite that you'd probably made up your mind when you
read the character description and could as well just have one menu at the beginning of the game.

When I see some of the great settings the writers here can come up with to make their kiss-fest slightly
different than the last, it pains me to see they don't realize what they're sitting on. Wake up! You've merely
scratched the surface of your imagination, just think of the things you can achieve if you unoock this potential!

I think most of you could achieve the level of some of the great commercial makers in here if you just try to
dig deeper. And not procrastinate and put some actual effort, but that's a different story.

[Fawn]

Excellent points, Greeny.

I think there's so many "kiss-fests" because, well, that's the majority of VNs. It almost feels weird to NOT make a romance game. Also, romance is something easy to relate to and sought after by many. The core gameplay of most VNs is good for simulating a romance, getting to know characters and reacting to them at key points. But you're right, it has a lot of potential for other things as well.

As for the "commercial quality" bit, you don't seem to understand how difficult that is to achieve. Most companies are made of experienced professionals who each do their own part on the game. Here it seems that games are often made by only one or two people, and it's a lot of work. High quality art is hard to acquire as well- great artists ask for heavy pricetags; and mediocre artists like myself who don't require the pricetag don't give the quality desired.

But anyways, nice post. I like

[HigurashiKira]

I think one of the biggest cripples to the BxB base is mainly who does it and for whom.

"Yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi"
No Plot, no point, no meaning!

Sadly, this what all BL games are. The writers are usually women who clearly failed biology class, the plots are just laughable, and it usually leaves readers with disatisfaction. But then again, these games are marketed towards women and all they want to see is 2 guys having sex, it dosen't matter how badly it's done.

(From this point on, BL games made for women will be called GBL, all BL games made for men will be called MBL)

Perhaps this is where the "bara" (BL for gay men) games tend to beat their GBL counterparts. Unlike GBL, MBL is biologicly correct (albeit, most of the characters are huge muscled guys, but at least you can tell they're men) the stories tend to be less BxG-ish, and the endings tend to close all loose ends.

Here's a comparison between 2 games, one is GBL, the other is MBL:

You will not believe how long it took me to find a SFW MBL image

What can you tell right off the bat that is diffrent about these two?

Fact is, GBL is basicly GxG, but giving the women a male appendage, while MBL is hardcore BxB with muscled/bearish men.

Seconded, except that I very much prefer GxG over anything (I'm a guy ). I don't particularly dislike BxB, but it's hard to find ones that are good for me to enjoy. Not that the quality is bad, but I prefer BxB to be less explicit.

Look into shounen-ai games, it has all the lovey-dovey of BL, but without the sex.

[Arcanum]

HigurashiKira, I beg to disagree. Generalizing things is not okay, specially if it makes you dismiss an entire genre (and the people who work on it and/or like it). Like any other genre, be it hentai, otome, heck, even FPS or anything else, there are games with no plot, games purely about sex (or shooting/killing things, grinding, or the equivalent) and… other kind of games. There are the usual ones, there are games that are remarkably bad, and there are marvelous games with intelligent plot (Animamundi, yay) and unusual gameplay (say, Angel's Feather, which include battles in a RPG setting, or Apocripha/0, that involves a cardgame). The only thing that defines BL is a game made from women, marketed towards women, focused in relationships between two guys, and that doesn't make them automatically unsatisfactory or bad, or fitting to the presented stereotype. Granted, the vast majority is unremarkable and cliche, but so is the vast majority of other games.

[Hayzel]

The only thing that defines BL is a game made from women, marketed towards women, focused in relationships between two guys, and that doesn't make them automatically unsatisfactory or bad, or fitting to the presented stereotype. Granted, the vast majority is unremarkable and cliche, but so is the vast majority of other games.

Erm...no? I'm a boy who is making a BL game and it's geared to both sexes....lots of guys write BL, it's just not as common.

[Arcanum]

Aaand that's why I hate classification *facepalm* I apologize - I just assume MxM content as being different from BL, which I use for the… japanese thing (which is female oriented, yeah). But I'll skip a discussion about MxM vs. slash vs. yaoi vs. BL vs. shounen ai, although I've accidentally dug myself into it /o

[Greeny]

As for the "commercial quality" bit, you don't seem to understand how difficult that is to achieve.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's possible. Just look at the things Jack_Norton and Sake-Bento have achieved, and I may be wrong but I don't get the image they're big fancy company people in big fancy suits with big fancy professionals working under them. True, I don't doubt they work with more than two people when they need to, but if you're willing to put real effort (and sometimes real money) anyone could assemble a team.

What Lemma soft really needs, IMO, is more ambition.

[KomiTsuku]

Just look at the things Jack_Norton and Sake-Bento have achieved, and I may be wrong but I don't get the image they're big fancy company people in big fancy suits with big fancy professionals working under them.

THEY'RE NOT?! SHENANIGANS! But that's what I am...

[Auro-Cyanide]

What Lemma soft really needs, IMO, is more ambition.

I don't think ambition is our problem. Maybe more realistic goals and dedication, but some of us have bucket loads of ambition. Which is probably a part of our problem -.-

[Camille]

As for the "commercial quality" bit, you don't seem to understand how difficult that is to achieve.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it's possible. Just look at the things Jack_Norton and Sake-Bento have achieved, and I may be wrong but I don't get the image they're big fancy company people in big fancy suits with big fancy professionals working under them. True, I don't doubt they work with more than two people when they need to, but if you're willing to put real effort (and sometimes real money) anyone could assemble a team.

What Lemma soft really needs, IMO, is more ambition.

They may not be big corporate suits, but at least they have money? Oh, and experience. The majority of people posting WIP threads on LSF these days, it seems to me, are people aged like 13-17 who are making a VN for the first time. Not to say that a 15-year-old can't produce quality work, but it's much easier when you can pay someone to work for you than when you have to do everything yourself. Much easier to lose motivation in that case, etc. (plus, to begin with, teenagers are not the most motivated, dedicated age group of people... I know, I was a teenager once! :c)

I agree with Auro, though. Realistic goals and dedication are more necessary than anything else. Recently I saw someone post a WIP and 4 days later, they updated it with a message like "Sorry, everyone including me lost interest in this project". So why bother putting up a WIP at all if you're going to abandon the idea in less than a week? 0_o

/off-topic

BxB game or whatever, I just like to see people really working on something rather than just posting a WIP thread and disappearing after a few weeks.

[Nebi]

I think we just want to share our ideas. The young and those young at heart seem to have the most ideas, but because so many other ideas are waiting to be explored it is easy to forget and move on. There is a lot one can learn from this forum and other creative forums in general. I feel the hardest lesson to learn for most beginners is when they realize that strangers may not find their ideas interesting. They do not lack ambition, but have put too much faith in both their own self-worth and in the kindness of anonymous users from the community.

I would say the second biggest hurdle is the realization that stories are difficult to write and even more difficult to tell. The Studio Ghibli film Whisper of the Heart captures this frustration quite well. Like I said, we just want to share our ideas with others. This forums appears to be a good first step for creative individuals interested in visual novels. Professionals or those who employ creativity for a living will probably skim through most of the threads here.

A lot of creators are students or have other obligations and consider visual novel making a temporary hobby. Nothing wrong with that. Those who do stick around will usually improve and get to the point where their work is widely recognized. We are still a small community when you look at the big picture.

Well, I went completely off-topic. :]