Mac Help on Specs...

[mugenjohncel]

I've been a Windows user all my life. I firmly believe that Macs are underpowered overpriced piece of crap and is avoiding it like the plague... that is, until I get a chance to actually test drive one when I visited a friend... to stress out the machine... I did some non linear video editing using the highest possible resolution available...

Using an unfamiliar software called Final Cut... I was surprised how easy I can navigate my way around it (though years of working with various video editing software probably is a factor)... I was hell bent on finding it's weak points and stress out the machine to the point where it would be unresponsive... it didn't... it just kept on going... And perhaps the biggest insult to my i7 machine back home loaded with 32Gig Memory, 4 Gig Video (yes... 4 Gig) And 4x 1 TB HD is that this Mac I'm currently using now whose specs is unknown actually can handle some of the worse chroma footages the students I'm instructing part-time (Yes... I may be retired but I still have duty and responsibility to pass my hard acquired techniques to the younger generations by teaching them various Chroma techniques)... OK so it's probably the software's fault in that...

So I was like WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS MAC!?... Why won't you fail!?... Mac's are supposed to fail when I put this much workload!!!... Mac's are supposed to be for idiots who cannot learn how to computer or are too lazy to learn how to use one properly... my perception of Macs has changed...

Long story short... I want a Mac... I want it now... I wanted to have the best specs for my personal use, one that can handle all possible abuse I can toss to it... price is not important, I can afford it... and also a mid range reasonably priced one for my office since... I wanted to have some bragging rights by having a Mac in my office instead of the usual PC or Laptop (No, I'm not gonna buy another I-Pad... I just sat on one and broke it...)

OK, so I'm totally noob at Mac specs... I wanted to buy 2 Macs

- One that is maxed out specs that can handle the baddest video editing tasks I can toss. Budget is not an issue since it's coming out of my own pocket.

- A mid ranged spec that is comparable to the standard office use. Though I prefer if it it's powerful enough to handle video editing but not required since this Mac will most likely just sit in the office and will most likely serve as my gateway to becoming familiar with Macs... basically practice with it... I'll put this as company expense so it will have to be "reasonably" priced (...Lol!)

So anyone familiar with Macs can help me?... Recommendations?... Possible future upgrades and considerations?...

"POOF" (......)

[LVUER]

OOT, but I want to say this... that's right, Mac is really good, especially with graphics. It's kinda de facto piece of hardware that you have to buy when working in graphics (yep, not Intel, not Windows... you have to buy Mac). It's more expensive than Intel for sure, but it's definitely worth it.

The reasons why I still don't buy it because I don't have much money to spend on computer, also because I need the compability and wide range of softwares of Windows platform, and the most important reason... I hate Apple.

From what Mac users friends said to me, nowadays it's far worth it to buy Macbook (laptop version) instead of its PC/desktop counterpart. Perhaps Macbook Pro? Don't buy the Air version, btw. Macbook Pro have several version, simply buy the most expensive version out there and the cheaper one.

[Camille]

An iMac is probably good for mid-range. I have a low-end one from 2008 that still works very well with video-editing and all that. (it's my primary computer that I do all my work on now) The newest iMacs now are even better and cheaper than they were before. Also, they look beautiful.

For the best, most powerful Mac, you definitely have to go for the Mac Pro, but it's pretty expensive.

The laptops are good for low to mid-range, but they're really not that great, in my opinion. For powerful tasks like video editing and whatnot, they'll slow down too much and overheat more compared to a desktop, so it's probably not worth it, I think. A Macbook would probably be a little cheaper than an iMac, though. In terms of graphics and video-editing apps, Macs simply are the best. A lot of people think like you used to, which I find kind of sad. Anyway, after using Macs for a few years, I just can't go back to Windows. The apps I'm used to using (so easy to use and powerful) have no good Windows equivalents. :X

Hopefully this helped a little... The Apple website has a lot of information on the specs of each kind of Apple computer/laptop, so it might be good to look through it.

[AxemRed]

OOT, but I want to say this... that's right, Mac is really good, especially with graphics. It's kinda de facto piece of hardware that you have to buy when working in graphics (yep, not Intel, not Windows... you have to buy Mac). It's more expensive than Intel for sure, but it's definitely worth it.

All current Macs use an Intel processor, there's nothing special about the hardware anymore.


Apple's product lineup is pretty simple:
- Mac Pro: High-end workstation
- Macbook: Laptop
- Macbook Air: Thin laptop
- iMac: Laptop hardware inside a nice monitor

[LVUER]

I see... it's either my info was wrong or outdated... still, I heard Apple drop Intel because Intel sponsored the Ultrabook series (which is a direct threat to Macbook Air).

[luminarious]

There is one more option. You could install OSX on your current top-notch machine and see how that works. I suggest this because to my knowledge, the Mac Pro range has not been kept up to date very well (especially considering the price).

[ScottySeng]

I would try what luminarious suggested. Use iBoot and install Mac OSX (Pray your current hardware is compatible).

No matter what, I would make sure to get a Nvidia since they have the whole CUDA monopoly going on. (I know Premiere Pro gains a massive speed up with the mercury play back engine...I would assume Final Cut does the same, but I've only used it a few times using the school's iMac...)

Umm...Curious, have you used Premiere Pro on Windows?

I think the biggest problem for Windows users switching to Mac is the fact that the close, minimize, and window buttons are on the top left corner instead of right. (It comes by habit now)

edit: I wrote Boot Camp by accident. I meant iBoot.

[AxemRed]

I would try what luminarious suggested. Buy Boot Camp and install Mac OSX (Pray your current hardware is compatible).

Bootcamp is for running Windows on Apple hardware, what does that have to do with installing OSX?

No matter what, I would make sure to get a Nvidia since they have the whole CUDA monopoly going on. (I know Premiere Pro gains a massive speed up with the mercury play back engine.)

As OpenCL is built into OSX 10.6+, any CUDA-only applications will probably start supporting OpenCL instead/too in the near future.

[ScottySeng]

As OpenCL is built into OSX 10.6+, any CUDA-only applications will probably start supporting OpenCL instead/too in the near future.

I hope it happens on the Windows side as well. I'm all for open source.
It sucks when I'm running an ATI (Now AMD) card and I can't run the Mercury Playback Engine since I don't have a Nvidia card.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Macs and PCs are running the same hardware now. Macs are using Intel processors and Nvidia graphics cards. The idea that Macs are better with graphics than Windows WAS true, but became outdated information years ago. Macs originated the graphic user interface and attractive OS design. In the early days Macs could also display more colors on screen than PCs. This was true up until about 9-10 years ago, so art made on a Mac could have richer colors.

However, the two - Mac and PC - are effectively identical machines running different operating systems. Macs are all first-party machines built by Apple, so theoretically at least, the quality of the construction on the hardware should be better, because PCs are made by many different third parties. Realistically however, whether it is a third part company building the computer or Apple, they are all getting their parts from the same vendors - Intel, Nvidia, Seagate, Corsair, etc. and just assembling them. You just pay more for the privilege of having Apple construct it.

I've used both, and I'm in the PC camp. I like digging into the guts of my system, I like running open source software, and playing all the latest games when they release. My Photoshop on Windows does just as awesome as the Photoshop I used on Macs at my art school. No difference really, except the annoying habit of the windows to be scattered separately all over the place on Mac. Same keyboard shortcuts too.

If you like the Mac OS better than Windows, have at it, but neither one is fundamentally better than the other, only different. With the move of all Macs to PC hardware and Microsoft making future OSs more like the Mac the design is converging anyway.

[Greeny]

However, the two - Mac and PC - are effectively identical machines running different operating systems.

That's just the thing; UNIX systems put a lot less strain on the hardware than Windows does. And face it, Windows is bloated. When I installed a dual boot on my new laptop, the windows side told me I should make a backup of the OS (I guess they don't just give you the software CD anymore). I nearly fell off my chair when it told me I was going to need 4 dvds to fit that motherfucker on. OTL

[DaFool]

Longtime user of Windows, Mac, and Linux, though I skip several computer generations at a time until recently (when they can all be had for way below $2000 or even $800 now)

I've had:
8088
Motorola 68000
Cyrix 586
Pentium 4
Atom

Now currently a Core2 Duo iMac and a Win7 i3 laptop

My conclusions are:
* pre-built OEM machines are generally longer-lasting than clone PCs put together in a chop shop or built by yourself (if you don't know what you're doing). Very few builders burn test and certify that the components are compatible, as such the two clone PCs I've ever had lasted very short lifespans. That's where a Mac is more durable and more tweaked, since it's a pre-built OEM.
* Windows always runs really bloated no matter whether you're running Windows 2000 with 256mb of ram or Windows 7 with 2 gigs of ram... they both perform like crap. However I still need them for games.

When my iMac was new, I dual-booted XP and was able to catch up on PC games. Now that the only PC games available are tiny indie games which will even run in a netbook, I became a console gamer and I don't use the windows partition so much anymore except for a few windows versions of programs. The Mac OS is a nice shiny OS to learn until you realize that Linux can be just as stable and the Linux GUIs are fast approaching the Apple GUI.

Thankfully most of my iOS devices were gifts because otherwise I don't really want to support the Apple corporation any longer, they're worse than Sony. But I do have to hand it to them for making a machine which in general performs 2X the speed in Adobe After Effects processing to a comparable Windows machine with similar specs! (This was a test done a few years ago by a colleague who does video editing for a living, using my computer and a benchmark workstation).

Also, both Apple and Microsoft stole their spiffy ideas from Xerox.

My next PC will probably be an OEM like Dell, Acer, or Lenovo, but with a blank slate so I can just install Linux on it. So I get both the factory-tested hardware and the free software to go with it.

[Efreet]

Another thing you could do is to build your own Mac to your own specifications (aka Hackintosh). The downside to this is obviously that it's not designed by Mac (no sleek, Apple logo'd products, but you could always buy the mouse, keyboard and monitor from Apple) and that you'll need to look for compatible hardware though there are several websites that cover all of this in detail (Insanely Mac, OSx86 and Tony something...). I think what might have also made this more widely possible was Apple's decision in using Intel-chip processors.

I've built my own custom Window's based PC (Intel i7 quad-core, 14GB DDR3 RAM, nVidia Gigabyte SOC GTX 640 1GB video card and 7TB HDD if you were curious) for a Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 which works as a treat, though I've been looking into flexibility and broadening my use of NLEs though Apple Final Cut 7 isn't all that different IMO, unless you're talking about new Final Cut X which has turned many people off and possible looking for alternatives thanks to its lack of professional functions. Going back on topic, a Mac would be great since you could load Adobe CS5 on it as well as Final Cut Pro 7 though the main problem with this is cost, though that's where the Hackintosh comes in and is something I'll be investing in in the near future.

As for your other office Apple computer (if it's going to be stationary), I'd suggest an iMac (here in the UK you got 21.5 inch screen or the much larger 27 inch screen, there's not a lot of choice), and whatever money you want to throw at it. The Mac Pro (with quad, 8 12-core processor) could very well suit the role as your primary computer than your secondary, but I'd wager that with benchmark testing a custom Hackintosh build could reach similar or higher marks for a fraction of the cost.

[mugenjohncel]

UPDATE:
(Damn... It seems I finally fell for the Dark Side of the Apple)

Well... I got news that it should be arriving any moment now... possibly in a few hours... I kinda feel like a kid getting a spanking new GI-JOE toy...

Asked a friend who is more familiar with Macs to configure it for me and install a few things I asked (Since I still don't know how to find my way around a Mac)... I didn't hold back and got the max specs available. (It's been hours already since we got it... what's taking him so long?)

Though I kinda forgot the reason why I got a Mac in the first place and I have this lingering regret in the back of my head that says... "Maybe buying a Mac was not a very good idea... that I could have gotten a better PC instead or a replacement for my now failing Cintiq"... I dunno, must be the price... and the fact that other than very rare Video Editing and perhaps Renpy testing... I have no other use for a Mac...

Any Mac specific suggestions that can make my life with a Mac more interesting?

Edit: Another thing is... any Mac specific issues I should know regarding Ren'py?... It's better to know about those things before I mess up and break things...

"POOF" (Disappears)

[ScottySeng]

Congratulations on the new Mac. Please be sure to patch it against the recent Flashback trojan. It's hit quite a few Macs so far, but the number is dropping.

Read more here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Flashf ... 15385.html

I'm not a Mac person, so I can't help much with config.