How many tracks...?

[Deji]

Hey guys!
Let me know if this is in the wrong sub forum ^^;

I was wondering, how many music tracks should a VN OST have? I honestly have no idea whatsoever >>;

Do you calculate it based on number of characters plus sad/happy/silly/location's specific theme? You go through the game and see where it needs music and where it could use the same track?

I was thinking of commissioning/asking somebody to do music for my game eventually, but I think it'd be better to know how many tracks I need first X_x.

[jack_norton]

There's no rule, really, is up to you!
For my games I have usually 3-4 tracks, but some have much more. I think that contrarily to what most people think, is better to have few, because of filesize and also because less tracks remains more impressed in people since they listen it more.
I remember that in one review they said that the music was bland/unmemorable, but in reality was quite good - just there were too many tracks.

[papillon]

One of the important things to take into account is that whatever music you have, it is GOING to get repeated a lot. Make sure you have songs that people can stand to listen to for large amounts of time and songs that are not too obtrusive and distract from the words. In some cases it can be better to do ambient sound instead of loading up on songs.

If you have only a tiny handful of tracks and you're playing them all the time a lot of your players are going to get annoyed and turn the music off completely. (Of course some people prefer to play that way anyway so that they can bring their own soundtracks.)

I have played a game which thought having a SINGLE TRACK of classical music on constant loop was sufficient for soundtracking. My poor ears! Sure, it was a nice piece, but over and over and over again for hours? Luckily the sound could be disabled. If you've got only three songs to put in your VN, do me a favor and don't include the music at all.

I've seen VNs with upwards of 40 songs on the soundtrack; my current project has about 16 at the moment.

How many is right depends on your design! If you've got a theme for each major character and then songs for certain important moods (my games often need a 'Danger!!' theme) then you can probably cover your bases at least for a first pass and then go back again to see if there's anything that really needs something special. I don't personally do the character-themesong thing much but I know other people like it that way.

[LVUER]

The longer your game, you'll want more tracks for your game. I made a game that may be about 30 minutes to 1 hour (though that because of the gameplay, not the story) to play and it only has 2 tracks; one for battle and one for dialogue scene.

How many you need is really up to you. Perhaps you want 3 or 4 for each emotion (angry, happy, sad, normal)? Or may be you want one song for each character (one for the protagonist and one for each heroine)?

[Ziassan]

As pointed below, there are no real strict rules. The number of tracks isn't the same than the work load for the composer.

The way of working differs from composer to composer, but for instance most of the time things went like this in previous works : talking with the writer/producer of what he wants for his project & what I think could be good for his project, the budget he has (which give an idea of the time which can be spent on the soundtrack), and how it's possible to fullfill these two aspect the best.
I had the case of a really small budget VN for which we agreed making a piano-only soundtrack was the best solution (because it takes less time than a regular track).
That depends how much the composer wants to work with you and talk, sadly a lot of musicians think it's more "pro" to keep some distances.

So in short, you don't necessarily need to know exactly the number of track needed, it's only required if you want something really cheap so the composer wouldn't have the time to look enough at your project to see himself how make something fitting.
(btw, making a track on a character is far harder than on a feel or a picture)
For instance, for a project which wants to be serious enough about this, a solid soundtrack would have to define one or two general theme which would be used in multiple tracks, and also another thing that can take some time : define the mood, the general set of instruments/sounds/kind of texture which will be used overally (to give the soundtrack some harmony and personnality).
That's why a 25-tracks OST can ask only twice the work of a 7-tracks OST.

I'd say music have really to not become a bother, so trying to have as few as possible is nearly worst to not have any at all. Jack said "also because less tracks remains more impressed in people since they listen it more." which isn't exactly right - if the tracks feel like coming each from a different composer, yes it can be an issue - but if a general mood/theme is conveyed though all the OST, it's an important plus.
For instance just the first half of Umineko VN has 113 tracks, and you surely have heard about how music is great in this VN. Even if that's not representative since Umineko is really long, VN and movie stories still need a music to be carried well.

For a little project where I was recently hired (< 1 hour of read), it was like 8 tracks, 5 for the characters, 1 for the menu, 2 for two opposed feels.
For the demo of Spiral Destiny I had to make 13 tracks while it was really short, but it was needed (and received good feedback on this part so I guess too much isn't that bad).

After, the fact that I compose can influence the importance I give to the thing ahah, but well.

[Deji]

I see... thanks for the insight everybody!

I have a composer friend/colleague that i'm going to nag about music for my game. Hopefully, we won't have communication issues, since we talk pretty often (:

I was looking at VN OST track list and saw they have anywhere between 15 - 40+ tracks o___o

Thinking of my script and my planned story, I could think of a long list of tracks I could use xD;
...But probably is better to just come up with the "most important" tracks needed first and then make a list of "would like to have"s and see if there's the opportunity to make them, just like with the art.

Again, thanks for the replies, they were really useful !

[jack_norton]

I'd say music have really to not become a bother, so trying to have as few as possible is nearly worst to not have any at all. Jack said "also because less tracks remains more impressed in people since they listen it more." which isn't exactly right - if the tracks feel like coming each from a different composer, yes it can be an issue - but if a general mood/theme is conveyed though all the OST, it's an important plus.

Yes probably because I was using mostly royalty free tracks. Though I checked better and was wrong, I have more than 4 tracks each game, more like 7-8
I think it matters also if the tracks are always on loop, or if you add background loop/effects, in which context musics are used, and so on (what papillon said).

[dramspringfeald]

Enough but not too many.

usually at least 1 or 2 per character, an "Events" track for funny, sad, anger and other emotions. Also try to use the same tracks or even later times in the tracks. You can get away with 1 track but it would get boring.

I've played games with 6 tracks that were wonderful, I've played games with 80 that needed work and everything in between so it's up to you.

[latte]

A visual novel I love and that revolves around music, Symphonic Rain, has themes for each heroine (with three arranges each) and another one, also with many arranges, for monologue scenes, and that was pretty much it. It also had an everyday song and maybe one more, but there weren't many tracks considering the length of the game. Still, it worked very well, because every track was fantastic and didn't feel intrusive, and the atmosphere of the game never changes so it doesn't really need that many.

On the other hand, Key titles (and most big company nakige) often have 2 or even 3 CDs worth of music, because there's a comedy/daily life part and then the drama/romance/tragedy, and they usually amount for 30+ hours of playtime. Using the many tracks at the right situations, it helps in gradually changing the atmosphere from lighthearted and comedic to something more serious.

Favor quality over quantity, but if you feel none of your current tracks are doing the job for a certain scene, or that it's becoming repetitive, why not commission a new one? Assuming you've got the budget, that is.

[Ryue]

Thinking of my script and my planned story, I could think of a long list of tracks I could use xD;
...But probably is better to just come up with the "most important" tracks needed first and then make a list of "would like to have"s and see if there's the opportunity to make them, just like with the art.

I think that is the best way.

First make a complete list what comes to mind, then scratch all you don't deem necessary from that list.
Then give it 1-2 days and scratch again what you don't deem as absolutely necessary.


That way yyou will have the bare basic tracks you need and have 2 every more complex lists of "would like to haves". depending on the workload and opportunity
you then can either only use the basic list or ask for additional tracks by using one of theh other llists (or even go through all 3 in succession if the opporutnity arises.
Then you can even see if the next tracks are really needed or not,...)

[sake-bento]

I like to have at least eight, but it usually blooms a little larger than that, depending on the story. (Except for [text], which didn't have any music in the actual game.) These days, I have the composer write a few with varying moods, then I send the text and images for important scenes and have him write specific music for that scene.

[SundownKid]

I'd say that 30-40 is a good number for a VN taking from 3-5 hours. Add to that number for any hours over that mark, so a 7-10 hour VN would need 50-60. Vice-versa, a 1 hour VN would probably only need about 5-10 tracks.

Your typical commercial RPG ost will have about 80 tracks for a lot longer time, but the music in a VN has to be more emotionally tuned to what's going on, so more tracks are required.

[CSJ]

There's more than one philosophy when it comes to composing music for video games in general. The selection of music for a project depends on a number of factors, which have been mentioned above by various people. I'll try and break down my take on the matter, hopefully without repeating verbatim what others have said.

Music in VGs is there for a specific thematic and/or structural purpose. Take a character theme, for example. which in the VNs I've played, they have acted as a motif for that individual, conveying their personality and 'aura', for lack of a better word. Typically, that theme will be recalled during dialogue focusing on that character, or whenever they make an appearance. If you want to have character themes, you'll have to develop them for whatever characters you think justify their own. Too many character themes can potentially break things up too much, because the music will be changing constantly, negating the value of each theme as a representation of that character. There are other types of music, of course. Thematic music for different scenes or events is also common. If your story has a lot of scenes, then creating a unique one for every scene would quickly become ridiculous. It's up to you as the author to determine what situations in which music would be of most use.

Music is also a great way to draw the player's attention. If you're a speed reader or 'skimmer' (As I have on several occasions), music is a great way to make them stop and slow down, especially in parts of the game that contain important dialogue, or scenes with longer pacing where you don't want them to steamroll through and lose useful/vital information.

Length is another thing. If you have a period in the game with music, then you should consider how long it will be playing for. There is no point in producing a 30-minute ambient piece for a setting that the player will only see for a few seconds, and will therefore get cut off before the listener has a chance to hear most of it. Again, that means that selecting when and where to incorporate music will determine how many 'tracks' you include into the game.

The biggest factor though, is resources. The amount of music in something should be directly proportionate to the amount of time/money/etc you're willing to throw at it. If you can't produce thirty unique songs for something without skimping on other aspects of the game, then it's worth considering making fewer tracks, but ensuring those you do have are of high quality. Longer games generally require more music by nature, but this does not mean you have to go overboard.

There are ways to overcome some of these issues, if you want a soundtrack that sounds unique and develops along with the game. One is to employ different variations on a single theme. This reduces the workload for a composer, because it is generally easier to adapt a single theme into 3-4 tracks, than to develop 3-4 different tracks. Another that others have covered, is repeating thematic music at points in the game with a similar emotive element. This also reduces the burden for creating multiple tracks and can bring some commonality, but has issues with repetition that have been discussed previously; papillon's comments are particularly useful in this regard. Sometimes it can be better to have silence in certain parts, than to repeat something too many times in a game, especially if you only have a limited number of tracks.

Consider also what your definition of a 'track' is. Ambient sounds, or 'noise', such as that you find every day, on the train or at school, can serve the same purpose as 'music'. I love games that incorporate these sorts of sounds into the game; firstly, because it really sets a scene well, and also because unlike 'music', the people around you do the composing for you. And that's what every composer loves; less work!

There are exceptions to these maxims; sometimes, a scene can be unique enough to deserve its own special track; I would definitely reccomend doing this in VNs with special endings, or other unique scenes that really stand out within the whole game. Good music can be a reward for the player by itself in obtaining a specific outcome in the game. Ultimately, though it's up to you to decide how much music you include in a game, and how to implement it.

Hopefully this is useful, rather than a slightly incoherent rant.

[Greeny]

I'd say that 30-40 is a good number for a VN taking from 3-5 hours. Add to that number for any hours over that mark, so a 7-10 hour VN would need 50-60. Vice-versa, a 1 hour VN would probably only need about 5-10 tracks.

Your typical commercial RPG ost will have about 80 tracks for a lot longer time, but the music in a VN has to be more emotionally tuned to what's going on, so more tracks are required.

That's insane.

[SundownKid]

Okay, so maybe my estimate was a bit high - but my VN has 30 ~2.5 minute tracks in the OST - any less and I feel like I'm leaving out music. Of course, it would most likely be a bad idea to make your own soundtrack for a hobby VN when you can just buy a pack or use free music for a lot less money. But for a commercial one, that seems to make sense.