Huge scope for first project

[Ozitiho]

So, for my first project, I've decided to do a game of absolute ridiculous scope for someone of my caliber.
It's not my first experience with game development, but it's definitely my first real project. I take care of the writing, design, management and coding. Which I have very minimal experience with (except coding) but I can somehow manage. I also know people who are willing to do the things I can't do, but I don't expect them to work hard for me. Although we've gotten pretty far.
But lately I've been hearing everywhere doing your first project with a really big scope is a TERRIBLE idea. It's hard to motivate yourself, it's hard to start and it's hard to find things to work on. Not to mention the lack of experience to make something good.

Of course, I've known that from the start. Still I decided to do exactly that. Even so far as to declare this first project my magnum opus from the start. Three years in now of working on it on and off in my free time when I feel like it and my game is... Oh geesh, maybe 25% done? For me personally, it's working out really well for me and I'm proud of what we've accomplished so far. There's not a doubt in my mind I'll finish it eventually, which is exactly how I've planned it from the start.

I'd like to hear opinions and maybe even stories. What's your experiences with your first project and what's your recommendations?
Personally I recommend that whatever your first project is, do it for fun and nothing else. Because if you do it for fun and don't set any bars then you'll be satisfied with no matter what your end result may be. Even if that end result is literally just a character drawn on a black background that isn't animated and can't even move.

[Alera]

It's good to hear that you're able to stay motivated for so long! I wish you good luck and can't wait to see your project finished one day!

I certainly can't do that though. I'm just terrified of big projects. xD I always try to work on small things because I want to see them finished and I really don't like my work to go to waste if the project fails. I like to have time limits too. If development is going to take me too long, then I see no point. Maybe it's just me because I'm an artist and I'm used to my art constantly changing and improving, I don't think I could start a game, work on it for say- 3 years and still keep the original art. That would drive me insane, I'd want to redraw everything over and over again! For the last ~6 months I've been working on my final game project at uni with a small team and I had to redo my work 3 times already. @A@ By personal choice because I simply don't like my old art anymore and I want us to have a pretty game in the end, that's my task~

My first few personal projects failed, even though they were meant to be quite small. I don't think the scope was the issue with them, just...things getting in the way and attempting to work with other people. But for my first finished game- I kept it tiny, worked on it hard for 5 days and boom! Finished product! And that made me extremely happy. It made me realize that small projects are more like my cup of tea.

I would like to one day make something bigger, but don't think I'm ready for that yet.

[Ozitiho]

Yeah I know that... I've never fancied myself a writer, so when I read back to things I wrote when I started there's just... A colossal gap. I've rewritten the first chapter (about 15k lines) five times already at this point. But every time it comes out a little bit better every time, so I don't mind. At the same time though, I sometimes look back at what I wrote and I'm seriously impressed with my past-self's writing skills.

[truefaiterman]

I've tried a lot of big projects, and the only one so far that has seen actual evolution is the current book I'm writing (+130.000 words), and I consider a miracle to be doing it.

So... nope, I'm not positive at all about starting with big projects. The ambition can devour you, you may lack resources or plain and simple knowledge or skill, or perhaps it just takes too much time and you get too tired of working without seeing "real results".

But, I also have to say I'm honestly impressed if you managed to work on it for three years, so you may just be determined or patient enough.

At the end it won't matter, just the knowledge and experience you've gathered during these years will be worth the effort. Good luck!

[Mad Harlequin]

I've had a few false starts, both as a writer and an editor. That hasn't diminished my ambition at all, though. It's true that doing a large first project is risky, but if you can really commit, the rewards are worth it---increased confidence, new connections, and the simple joy of working towards a goal. These are the things I hope to gain.

The key, I think, is knowing how to set realistic goals and then acting accordingly.

[Aviala]

I actually have a similar situation as the OP. I started my project as a web comic like 3 years ago. It didn't work out back then, but now I've managed to start turning it into a VN and work hard to finish it. The scope is too big for a first project but there's a certain story I want to tell and a game I want to make so I've worked hard to make it happen during these ~5 past months. I don't feel like I'm going to abandon this project, I've put way too much energy and love into it. I'm going to finish it no matter what. Hopefully sooner than later.

It's a bit hard to keep the scope realistic when my partner wants to keep adding features... A lot of times I just need to say a strict "no". Imagine doing that with your own project that you love; it's not easy!

[sendo]

It's great that it's working out for you OP! I don't think I can handle creating something for that long. I have a certain 'time limit' to try and make things work or give up and move on to something else. Like in the first month I should have some sketches done. Or, in the first 3 months, I should have already figured out how to do a certain gameplay feature or I should have already mapped out the plot. Once I go over these time limits without reaching the goals, my motivation drops really fast and I almost always drop the project. Like truefaiterman mentioned, I'm the kind of person who needs to see 'real results' to keep myself going.

I also did a lot of ambitious projects myself when I started out. I cannot count how many times I've started something and then failing in the end - either by lack of motivation, time, skills or everything combined. Still, I learned things by doing these ambitious attempts, and over time I learned to take things in smaller scale and build on top of that.

Maybe it's just me because I'm an artist and I'm used to my art constantly changing and improving, I don't think I could start a game, work on it for say- 3 years and still keep the original art. That would drive me insane, I'd want to redraw everything over and over again!

I feel you! XD For a game I worked on, I redid the whole sprite cast (not big really, just 3 sprites) 3 times because I get that nagging feeling that "Ugh this looks lame, I can do it better now!" ^^;

[SundownKid]

The truth is, your first project will never be your magnum opus. Because you will always have something you feel could have been done better. The idea of a magnum opus is that someone spent a long time learning how to do something, and it's the culmination of all that they've learned. Just throwing a huge amount of things together does not make a magnum opus, just a very large game. That's why it's best to start small because then you will be able to take those lessons and put them towards something new instead of being stuck editing the same thing.

Another problem with making your first project big is that it's hard to obtain feedback for it if it's in a perpetual state of development. Best to shove it out there for better or worse and get that valuable experience. Which is more than just making a game, it also includes marketing, publicity and other things.

[Alera]

I think that's why game jams are so popular, it just pushes you and gives you a motivation boost to finish a project in a short time! And sometimes it creates full released games too because there are no rules that you can't carry on working after the jam. ^^

[Lesleigh63]

I pushed my big project to third down the list.
My first was just a shortish kinetic novel of around 8000 words which took me a year (I did everything except the music which I used creative commons music for).
My second project is going to be longer and more involved with branching. The outlining is done and I'm at the writing stage. Then I'll start the art proper (I'm doing some exercises for the art just to keep my hand in and it helps if I get bored with the writing). Not sure how long this second project will take but it will give me a rough idea of how long my big third project will take.

[ameliori]

Alright first of all.. making a huge game is not a bad idea, as long as you keep in mind the following:

- FIRST (and this is important) You have to visualize your final product. Story wise, is your ending already in sight? Production wise, how many sprites/expressions/backgrounds are in your checklist. If you don't have those, make it happen. Not negotiable.
- What is your schedule? You have to make a schedule for this game. if not, it is in danger of NEVER going to be finished. Why? since your scope is big, it's so easy to add a lot every time you see a new shiny thing (OMG, how to make navs! OMG custom mouse pointers! OMG! ATL effects!) and then too much, and then you have a mess. A schedule just means a checklist of things you have to accomplish at a certain time. Probably on a weekly or monthly basis.
- Human nature means we get distracted easily, so I would suggest going on a "project fast". You will not do another project until this big one is finished. It will keep you motivated and focused on such a big project.
- Have a support group. Show your big project to people and have them get excited at your updates. I find that it helps in accountability.

I was tempted to make that HUGE game like you. A magnum opus kind and I feel like I could pull it off. It's not a terrible idea, but there is a learning curve to this kind of thing. It's not even about the "creation" itself, but your efficiency. When you make small games you gather knowledge that will help you bring that big game faster and with a lot more bells and whistles. It's also easier to figure out bugs in a small game and NOT do them again in a big game.

I did not know how to split renpy windows in my first game. I didn't know shake effects. I did not know text tags, I did not know blinking "continue buttons", I did not know splash pages. These are all I researched to make my first game. It was a small game but it still took me a WHOLE YEAR to make. Why? Because research and learning is counted in and I was so painfully slow.

These things I learned I implemented in my second game, and I was able to complete the story in a month. Now I am looking at finishing this second game in around two months time (3 months production time). You can tell the turn around time is a BIG improvement. Why? Because during my first game, I got to know people and they helped me make my second game. Also, I copied and pasted some miscellaneous code effects that would've taken me hours to research back then for my first game.

During this time, I am also playing other games, talking to people, asking advice and testing out some ideas. I still haven't done my BIG game. I thought I will get cheated out of it if I make smaller games, but you know... You fall in love with your creation.. And the small projects end up being memorable because I worked on it day in and day out. I've given myself to these small projects and they are still great in their own right. Is it any more better, any more deep, meaningful or enduring than my big game? Honestly, I am beginning to think so. In fact, I don't even know. You are only as good as your latest work, dear OP. So you may say this big project is your greatest work, but like Sundown Kid says, it isn't. Just the amount of difference in my first and second game's quality is staggering.

Do you see what I am getting at here?

I am not against doing a big project as your first, but the advantages of smaller projects far outweigh it.. Another caveat, when you get stuck with something SO LONG, you get sick of it. You eat strawberries day in and day out, I don't care how much you love that shit. Three years in you will recoil in horror at the sight of their juicy, pock-marked faces.

[qirien]

This can be easier if, even though this is your first VN, you have done other projects successfully in the past (novels, short stories, tabletop games, webcomics, etc).

But I kind of did this, too. Having done one 3-year project and then one NanoRenO project, I can definitely say that I learned a lot while doing both. But it sounds like you are doing what you are passionate about, which is really important.

BUT, it takes a lot of humility to be able to cut content that isn't working (and in a huge project, there will definitely be some), and to take constructive feedback and change what you've been working on for years. If you can do those things, I think a large first project can still be good!

[LPRe]

Ha, I'm kind of in your shoes in a way, OP, with some of the things I'm doing right now.

I tend to jump into things without much experience, and unfortunately tend to have pretty big ideals for what I want. Despite lack of experience, my standards for myself don't really shift, so I always expect myself to just learn to match what I'm seeing, even if it's way more complex than my level can handle. It's...Caused a lot of dead projects, though the ideas are always there, I just get easily frustrated. With all the times I've failed to finish big projects, I try not to aim TOO high now, but I'm impressed that you can be satisfied with what you've done. I always get frustrated because I always feel like things can be better, and then I get caught up trying to improve what I have instead of actually finishing anything.

I think that starting small is actually a better idea, even though it's not always what you want, necessarily -- I love fantasizing about bigger projects, but I've only finished fairly small ones. Nanowrimo was probably one of the biggest things I ever managed to complete. I definitely think that you should start on something that you think is fun or that you really want to work on -- but it also matters how well you can motivate yourself to keep going if it's long. I'm not all that good at sticking, so short projects are my best bet for actual completion, honestly.

Really, it's a matter of how you can stick to it -- persistence is definitely something necessary.

[fullmontis]

Personally, the biggest problem I have with big first projects is that you will grow your skills quickly while you create it.

As a consequence, your first decisions on the project will probably make the rest of it much more difficult to work with.

Nothing wrong in that, it is how we learn. But since it is a big projects, it means losing a ton of time that you could have saved if you had more experience.

If you are really dedicated to do a projects that can take you years of work, the I would suggest creating a micro project first. See it as an investment for your future project. Something that you know you can make in a week max. Then work on it. You will discover you will go over your schedule by a week or two. That is normal. Then ship it. You don't need to show it to anyone if you don't like it, but at least make it so that you COULD show it to someone if you want to.

By doing this, you will learn about 80% of the stuff that could create problems in your big project, at the cost of a few weeks.

This is at least how I would do it if I went back when I started.

[Ozitiho]

... I always get frustrated because I always feel like things can be better, and then I get caught up trying to improve what I have instead of actually finishing anything.

Hah, boy do I ever know what that's like. I've entirely or partially rewritten the first chapter like 4 times so far, improving upon it every time. But I don't think that's a problem. As long as you have the time and the will to keep going, it'll be good eventually. That was my goal, anyway.

If you are really dedicated to do a projects that can take you years of work, the I would suggest creating a micro project first.

Well I would be inclined to disagree a bit. If you're working on a project for years and years you'll be researching stuff on the side anyway. I would agree though that if you dare take on a big project of any kind, you need to have experience with projects of any kind. After all you can't just "start working" on anything and assume everything will work out.

- What is your schedule? You have to make a schedule for this game. if not, it is in danger of NEVER going to be finished.

Personally I avoided this intentionally. I wanted my project scope to be dynamic. I just wrote a story outline one day and threw out a number. "It should take about 4 years although probably far more than that." and now it's been almost 3 years and boy is it ever far away from done. There might be a demo soon, though. But I don't think this is bad. It would be HORRIBLE had I done this to a professional extent or if my time had been precious. But in my project there's only two goals. First to make something cool and second to have fun doing it. Anything else is secondary. I've even gone on hiatus multiple times in order to prioritize other work but I've always come back to it before too long. That's because I'm having so much fun with the project, I WANT to continue with it.

I have a hard time recommending it though in most cases. I want to, but my work method is far from efficient. All I'm doing is whatever I feel like and trying to make the best I can while doing so. But if you feel really passionately about a project but you don't have the time to work on it all day every day, I recommend working like this to anyone. But it really only works if you always have childish fun in what you're doing.