So both of the people on my project I've found thus far are both working in drastically different timezones than mine. When I wake up, it's in the middle of the night for them and when I go to sleep it's in the middle of the day for them. It isn't as bad as it sounds though since there are small pockets of time, but my problem is that they never seem to be online. They both have told me how cool they think the idea of the project is, but I feel like they're not doing enough, if anything at all. I'm not saying that I want them off my project and I don't know how to tell them, far from it. I really appreciate the work that I've seen from them that they've posted in their own time, and I don't want to lose that and start from square one. I've expressed multiple times how much I don't want to seem like I'm in annoying. Basically every single text I send them starts with "I'm sorry if I'm bothering you, _______.", but I'm starting to feel if I don't do something about it, then it's never going to be done. Something very important to keep in mind is that there's no deadline for this project since we're not working with official people or anything, we're just fans of an original work, but I don't want the project to be stuck in purgatory for forever and never get done. (I've tried my best to keep this under wraps from fans of the original work as well, so it's not like we have to live up to any expectations. Nobody knows about it.) But at the same time, I'm afraid that if I do get forceful(probably not the right word, but anyways), that they'll drop out citing that "you're too bothersome, I'm leaving." I understand that people have lives and that game development isn't easy and is hard, and that especially with the pandemic that everything is still a bit crazy, and I can't be sure, but I keep wondering if it's because of that or because of some other reason that they're not working as much as I'd like them to. I really don't know.
I'm very sorry if this is hard to understand or I didn't explain something properly or left details out that I didn't know people needed. I'll try to answer any additional questions as best as I can or elaborate if needed
I don't know if this is important, but from what I've figured out, all three of us are still in school (I'm the youngest since I'm supposed to be going off to college), but I can guarantee that I will always have free time to work on the project regardless of anything going on in my life. And that's not to say I slack off in school and that's why I have time on my hands, that's not true. I actually get very good grades, so I don't understand what's going on.
I'm really sorry if I come off like a baby or that I'm complaining, I just don't know what to do anymore. I've had lots of fun with this project and I just really want to make some progress, that's all...
If you're the leader of the project - it's your idea, and they're working based on your instructions - it's probably always going to be true to a certain extent that they're not going to be quite as passionate about it as you are. That just tends to be how things go. Everyone gets really excited about their own ideas and hopes that they can find other people to collaborate with them who will feel the same way, but no matter how cool you think it is and how committed you are to working on it, it's rare that someone else's idea fills everyone else with that same inspiration. You say that you can guarantee that you'll always find time to work on the project no matter what, but it just might not be as high a priority for someone else who isn't quite as passionate as you are, and who has other things going on in their life as well - especially if they're university students who are probably really busy. Part of the issue sounds like you might just need to try to relax a bit and trust that if they said they'll do something, they'll do it. (But I totally understand that that's way easier said than done, as I've had my own "this project will never be finished" anxieties in the past. It's just something we need to work through.)
In the future, I might advise that you actually try setting deadlines (and working with people who are okay with that and agree to the deadlines, of course). It might sound like a good idea at first to say "don't worry about it as long as you get it done eventually," but that's what leads to precisely this situation - people work on other stuff that's higher on their priority list first, and you end up stressed out about how they haven't done anything yet and you were hoping it would be faster, but you feel like you shouldn't complain because after all, there wasn't really deadline. If you both agree on a deadline from the start, then they have a better idea of the pace that you're hoping for from them, and you have a better idea of what to expect, and communication will be a lot easier all around. I'm not saying you need to start being super rigid about deadlines - especially not if everyone's just working on a fan project for free, in which case I think you should be much more lenient than you would be on a paid project - but it's important to at least make your expectations clear and make sure everyone is on the same page about at least a rough timeline for the project.
parttimestorier wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:31 am
If you're the leader of the project - it's your idea, and they're working based on your instructions - it's probably always going to be true to a certain extent that they're not going to be quite as passionate about it as you are. That just tends to be how things go. Everyone gets really excited about their own ideas and hopes that they can find other people to collaborate with them who will feel the same way, but no matter how cool you think it is and how committed you are to working on it, it's rare that someone else's idea fills everyone else with that same inspiration. You say that you can guarantee that you'll always find time to work on the project no matter what, but it just might not be as high a priority for someone else who isn't quite as passionate as you are, and who has other things going on in their life as well - especially if they're university students who are probably really busy. Part of the issue sounds like you might just need to try to relax a bit and trust that if they said they'll do something, they'll do it. (But I totally understand that that's way easier said than done, as I've had my own "this project will never be finished" anxieties in the past. It's just something we need to work through.)
In the future, I might advise that you actually try setting deadlines (and working with people who are okay with that and agree to the deadlines, of course). It might sound like a good idea at first to say "don't worry about it as long as you get it done eventually," but that's what leads to precisely this situation - people work on other stuff that's higher on their priority list first, and you end up stressed out about how they haven't done anything yet and you were hoping it would be faster, but you feel like you shouldn't complain because after all, there wasn't really deadline. If you both agree on a deadline from the start, then they have a better idea of the pace that you're hoping for from them, and you have a better idea of what to expect, and communication will be a lot easier all around. I'm not saying you need to start being super rigid about deadlines - especially not if everyone's just working on a fan project for free, in which case I think you should be much more lenient than you would be on a paid project - but it's important to at least make your expectations clear and make sure everyone is on the same page about at least a rough timeline for the project.
Thanks for your advice, this actually really helps, especially the part where you said that that "don't worry about it, there's no deadline" mentality leads to the kind of situation that I'm afraid of. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one that has that "this project will never be done" kind of thoughts."
If deadlines do need to be set(lenience in mind of course, thanks for that bit as well), what should I do if the person outright refuses to have any deadlines and they won't negotiate? (And on that note, how should one negotiate that kind of thing?)
If deadlines do need to be set(lenience in mind of course, thanks for that bit as well), what should I do if the person outright refuses to have any deadlines and they won't negotiate? (And on that note, how should one negotiate that kind of thing?)
Well, I guess it depends how desperate you are to recruit that person in particular.
If someone refuse to have any deadlines at all, that means they are probably already very busy, and that your project won't be a priority. Either you are fine with it, knowing that the project might never be finished, or might take a long time to be finished, either you're not and you will have to look for someone else.
If someone refuse a deadline in particular (for exemple, it won't be done for June, because they have exams), you can discuss with them to see which deadline would work out for them (for exemple, they are available in July and August). And then, ask yourself if this deadline is fine or not for your project. If it isn't, look for someone else.
If deadlines do need to be set(lenience in mind of course, thanks for that bit as well), what should I do if the person outright refuses to have any deadlines and they won't negotiate? (And on that note, how should one negotiate that kind of thing?)
Well, I guess it depends how desperate you are to recruit that person in particular.
If someone refuse to have any deadlines at all, that means they are probably already very busy, and that your project won't be a priority. Either you are fine with it, knowing that the project might never be finished, or might take a long time to be finished, either you're not and you will have to look for someone else.
If someone refuse a deadline in particular (for exemple, it won't be done for June, because they have exams), you can discuss with them to see which deadline would work out for them (for exemple, they are available in July and August). And then, ask yourself if this deadline is fine or not for your project. If it isn't, look for someone else.
Alright, that makes sense. Thanks for your advice, I'll be sure to keep this all in mind if/when the need arises :D
Another thought as far as the time zones thing goes...
Most things can be handled by email. I've worked with reasonably large teams 100% by email. You do lose some nuance, but the great thing about email is, people don't need to be working at the same time. You can email, "Hey, Mutive, do you have this scene written/programmed?" and four hours later, when I'm awake, I can email it to you. (Or say, "Not yet, but I'll get it to you Saturday evening.")
For those few things you need meetings for (and yes, you may occasionally need them), I find that saying, "Are you able to meet at X, Y or Z time?" is super helpful. I personally will NOT hang around on Discord/Skype/Facebook/whatever for hours every day (I'm bombarded by messages which makes it hard to do anything else. And since I'm holding down a full time job, have projects I'm working on, etc. I can't really afford to spend 2-3 hours a day 'hanging out'.), and it's pretty obnoxious to ask someone to endlessly hang out online at times that may be super inconvenient. But I (personally) can often make time on a weekend, afternoon, etc. if I know that it's both a) rare and b) valuable for the team.
So setting times may be helpful, especially if you can set up times that work for people in other time zones by taking a long lunch, waking up early, going to bed late, etc. (All these are things I'd be disinclined to do on a daily basis, but could totally see doing 1x/month to catch up with the team I'm working with.)
Mutive wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:15 pm
Another thought as far as the time zones thing goes...
Most things can be handled by email. I've worked with reasonably large teams 100% by email. You do lose some nuance, but the great thing about email is, people don't need to be working at the same time. You can email, "Hey, Mutive, do you have this scene written/programmed?" and four hours later, when I'm awake, I can email it to you. (Or say, "Not yet, but I'll get it to you Saturday evening.")
For those few things you need meetings for (and yes, you may occasionally need them), I find that saying, "Are you able to meet at X, Y or Z time?" is super helpful. I personally will NOT hang around on Discord/Skype/Facebook/whatever for hours every day (I'm bombarded by messages which makes it hard to do anything else. And since I'm holding down a full time job, have projects I'm working on, etc. I can't really afford to spend 2-3 hours a day 'hanging out'.), and it's pretty obnoxious to ask someone to endlessly hang out online at times that may be super inconvenient. But I (personally) can often make time on a weekend, afternoon, etc. if I know that it's both a) rare and b) valuable for the team.
So setting times may be helpful, especially if you can set up times that work for people in other time zones by taking a long lunch, waking up early, going to bed late, etc. (All these are things I'd be disinclined to do on a daily basis, but could totally see doing 1x/month to catch up with the team I'm working with.)
Sorry for the late reply, but thanks for your advice my guy. I'll consider using this with one of the people I'm working with since they don't seem to be very active on our usual chatting app. Granted, that may be because of life stuff just like in your situation, so thanks for giving me a new way to try to talk to them!
XBDC36 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:18 am
Sorry for the late reply, but thanks for your advice my guy. I'll consider using this with one of the people I'm working with since they don't seem to be very active on our usual chatting app. Granted, that may be because of life stuff just like in your situation, so thanks for giving me a new way to try to talk to them!
No worries and you're very welcome!
I figure it's always good to try to contact people in a couple of different ways before giving up. Assuming you still want to work with them, sending them a chat + email at least avoids the possibility that they've uninstalled the chat (always possible for a number of reasons that likely have nothing to do with you), that your email ended up in spam (or just a very full inbox - I get >100 emails a day at one address), etc.
(It might help, too, to ask how they work best. Some people LOVE chat. Others hate it. Some are great with email, some are always behind. Some people want to schedule everything, others prefer spontaneity. Either way, I've found I usually get the best results when I work with someone's style rather than trying to insist that they adapt to mine.)
XBDC36 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:18 am
Sorry for the late reply, but thanks for your advice my guy. I'll consider using this with one of the people I'm working with since they don't seem to be very active on our usual chatting app. Granted, that may be because of life stuff just like in your situation, so thanks for giving me a new way to try to talk to them!
No worries and you're very welcome!
I figure it's always good to try to contact people in a couple of different ways before giving up. Assuming you still want to work with them, sending them a chat + email at least avoids the possibility that they've uninstalled the chat (always possible for a number of reasons that likely have nothing to do with you), that your email ended up in spam (or just a very full inbox - I get >100 emails a day at one address), etc.
(It might help, too, to ask how they work best. Some people LOVE chat. Others hate it. Some are great with email, some are always behind. Some people want to schedule everything, others prefer spontaneity. Either way, I've found I usually get the best results when I work with someone's style rather than trying to insist that they adapt to mine.)
Of course! Working with someone by their style is a good idea! And asking which way they prefer to talk will be helpful too! Thanks again, everyone here is so nice and I'm grateful for that!
I don't have much experience working with teams in the visual novel field, but I've worked plenty with voice actors over Discord so I know your pain. The harsh truth is that you have to assign everyone a deadline. I sympathize heavily with the "it'll be ready when it's ready" attitude you display, but some people will never get around to it. Life can get in the way or they simply forget. If you're really in no hurry then it's best to think of the deadlines not as a due date per se, but as reasonable timeframe to do the work. If you don't hear back from them by the deadline, them message them and ask for an update. Don't be too confrontational and it'll be fine.
PS: I know this thread is three months old, but I hope someone finds my input useful.
MapletreePaper wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 am
I don't have much experience working with teams in the visual novel field, but I've worked plenty with voice actors over Discord so I know your pain. The harsh truth is that you have to assign everyone a deadline. I sympathize heavily with the "it'll be ready when it's ready" attitude you display, but some people will never get around to it. Life can get in the way or they simply forget. If you're really in no hurry then it's best to think of the deadlines not as a due date per se, but as reasonable timeframe to do the work. If you don't hear back from them by the deadline, them message them and ask for an update. Don't be too confrontational and it'll be fine.
PS: I know this thread is three months old, but I hope someone finds my input useful.
Don't worry about it! I still thank you very much for your input! It helps a lot, really!
Sorry, I know this is an old thread and maybe I missed it, but as the head of your project are you paying your partners? I'm not saying you should be, if that's not the arrangement you have, but I'm just curious, as that changes the dynamics a bit
Hey, I'm making a game about kissing cute fast food mascots! Check it out here right here.
PassiveChicken wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:06 am
Sorry, I know this is an old thread and maybe I missed it, but as the head of your project are you paying your partners? I'm not saying you should be, if that's not the arrangement you have, but I'm just curious, as that changes the dynamics a bit
Aaah, I'm sorry for taking so long to respond to this! I'm not paying anyone for anything, everyone I have is either a volunteer or people I searched for to ask for help with the game and they accepted.
