What do you think is lacking in the OELVN scenario?

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Mr. E · #1 Post by **Mr. E** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:00 pm

Well... I'm pondering about what should my next game be like as I wade through my current hiatus (lasting until July if all goes well ) and the problem is: I keep getting too many ideas! They just keep pelting me and pestering my mind! I need some kind of "guiding factor", so I'm falling back on you guys.
This poll can also help the other game makers and give them inspiration (or not, who knows) and I'm also intrested in what people feel about that.
Anyways! Please vote or post away!

Septimus · #2 Post by **Septimus** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:23 pm

I think that what OELVNs really need is their own cultural style. I'm not judging those who choose to follow in the footsteps of japanese VNs, but what I'd really like to see is more OELVNs that reflect western cultures rather than japanese ones. With a good number of western-style VNs I hope that OELVNs can set themselves apart from the japanese ones that they were inspired by and gain their own fanbase. This may only be a dream though as all VNs seem to be declining in popularity nowadays.

mikey · #3 Post by **mikey** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:18 pm

For me, it would have to be comedy. Not the type that makes you laugh like crazy, but the type that makes you smile. I think right now I'm in the mood for something subtle, an alternative to the usual range of anime situational jokes.

DaFool · #4 Post by **DaFool** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:18 pm

There are dating games such as the Sailor Moon ones, except they aren't in Ren'Py and technically aren't Visual Novels.

For those that are VNs, you could kinda say... well, Project Nattsu, Elven Relations, Garden Society Kikuit all use points to determine which girl you're hitting on the most... maybe that classifies as dating?

Actually, there are very few actual dates per se... more like adventures and shared experiences.

Anyway, I voted for horror / mystery / suspense because I think the community is capable of creating the atmosphere except that no one really wrote something totally skewed in that direction... I guess it would detract too much from the renai. (edit: Oh wait... the Silent Maiden games and the Loyal Kinsman, duh! Well anyway, more of them!)

We already have comedies / parodies. I think we already have epics (Elven Relations) just not 4-hour ones. And I'm working on the hentai hentai. So yeah bases are getting covered.

Apart from setting apart from Japanese culture... well if someone really likes the Japanese setting, they should definitely do it. Note also that we already have had a couple of authentic Victorian era and western fantasy settings... and I personally think they come across most authentic because of the costumes, the accuracy of the settings, and the lyrical style. I don't think any Japanese could have done those unless they travel to London and other places and do some research first.

edit2: Oh, I know! We need mecha. If anyone can write mecha, then wow!

absinthe · #5 Post by **absinthe** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:55 pm

I'd love to see a new horror/suspense game -- well, as long as the horror isn't too horrific, as I'm kinda squeamish. I liked Divi-dead, though.

And I definitely think romances are workable within the horror/suspense framework. It can be a really effective contrast, to have a bright spark of love against a dark and seemingly-hopeless background.

Just please don't do an absurdist comedy, I've never understood the appeal of those. Lots of people seem to like them, though?

DrakeNavarone · #6 Post by **DrakeNavarone** » Fri May 25, 2007 8:01 pm

mikey wrote:For me, it would have to be comedy. Not the type that makes you laugh like crazy, but the type that makes you smile. I think right now I'm in the mood for something subtle, an alternative to the usual range of anime situational jokes.

I'm seconding this. Not the tries-to-hard, slapstick, vulgar kind of humor that most animes cram down your throat. I mean, that outrageous kind of humor is fun at times and can be really good actually (especially when mugenjohncel is doing it. Go Mr. K!), but a change of pace never hurts either. It's rare when you get to see that subtle, dry, smart kind of humor in an anime, manga, or a vn, which tend to rely on their fanservice gags and other generic harem situations... Since it's you we're talking about here, Mr. E, I think you could do it, make that smart comedy if you wanted. Final Station had a lot of charm to it, and I both grinned and laughed at parts. If you keep that cleverness up and put it to use towards making a comedy, it could easily be one of my favorites.

Hime · #7 Post by **Hime** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:41 am

Horror or suspense, especially when combined to romance, would rock. I love stories that evoke feelings within people, and fear is such a strong feeling that is very hard to wake up within the audience. But if it succeeds, it usually rocks for many reasons. Fear is an interesting feeling when you're thinking from the view of the player, I think, because there are a lot of stories that evoke happiness, sadness, amusement and such, but fear is a lot more rare, so it's a lot more exciting. Fear is also a bit instinctive feeling, so it isn't as easy to control. Oh, that's why I love stories like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni...

I'd love it if there would be more horror/suspense VNs in English. Myself, too, I'm trying to make TeraMura a mystery game with a bit of suspense, perhaps even with a couple of hints towards the horror genre.

monele · #8 Post by **monele** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:53 am

Mmm... I vote for comedy because I don't think we've had *truely* comedy oriented VNs so far. Many had great humor added, but they usually focused on something else. But comedy can be hit or miss, so sometimes it's better to have it coupled with another theme, as it's been done so far... so... aaah... let's just say I'm not sure XD...

Horror/Mystery would be nice too though... and maybe some sci-fi/mecha (we haven't had many of these, right?).
You seem to be at ease with time and the paranormal, so Mystery might be good for you... but I'd understand if you want a change of pace too ^^.

Apart from a general theme, I'd also like to see new visions of the VN medium and game in general. The Nettstadt Troll is quite original in that regard. It's not a revolution of the medium but definitely an idea that isn't overused and... if the garden thing is implemented... I think we will have a very pleasant game on our hands ^.^.
But I guess you might want to focus on the story aspect mh?

Mmm... Might be nice to be able to play as more "ordinary" yet intriguing characters...
Maybe you could be a fortune reader who actually has a power and tries to use it to help people... or for his/her own good (luring the one you love towards you?)...
Or you could be a "house IA" in the future, able to follow the lives of your inhabitants and somehow help them through controlling things (slowing some down, comforting them with a nice temperature... or causing trouble :p)...
Or you could be a florist, dealing with some particular clients, having to... um... *blinks*... I dunno, choosing the "right" flower for them (for those they want to offer it to I mean).
Or you could be a cat;.. dealing with feline problems ô_o...
Or you could be... you could be an idea!... Roaming around the world, meeting with other ideas or just observing things in order to grow into a concept?... The choices you'd make would determine the final concept you get.

Yeah, I dunno

... But somehow, I like things that might be hard to classify XD. Good luck!

DaFool · #9 Post by **DaFool** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:55 am

monele wrote: Apart from a general theme, I'd also like to see new visions of the VN medium and game in general. The Nettstadt Troll is quite original in that regard. It's not a revolution of the medium but definitely an idea that isn't overused and... if the garden thing is implemented... I think we will have a very pleasant game on our hands ^.^.
But I guess you might want to focus on the story aspect mh?

Wow, I thought it was just another one of my bad ideas

It was originally intended to be really horror / mystery / suspense but as the idea is refined its less horrific and more mysterious. Plus I'm not too far away from comedy (as long as I keep the slapstick ones away).

Well, back to the topic in general, basically, regardless of the type of game, it really needs to carry the right atmosphere to suck you in. If it's fantasy, if it's forgetting your memories, or a sad love tale, no exception. If you're a great writer, you should be able to carry most of that atmospheric weight on writing alone. If you're not -- like me -- you'll really need to work on the other elements (graphics, music, gameplay) to be able to deliver.

absinthe · #10 Post by **absinthe** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:01 pm

I was wondering, what exactly does "epic" mean in this case? I was planning on reworking Beowulf as a VN eventually... but I get the feeling that's not what's meant.

If it's just a time thing, what's the range? If it's a scope thing, what qualifies there?

I'm kind of between projects at the moment too, so this thread has been incredibly informative. And it's giving me lots of ideas.

dreamer · #11 Post by **dreamer** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:25 pm

If we were to go by the classic definition, what would qualify as an epic would be an rpg type of storyline since it must focus on the exploits of a hero on a mission of great importance to the world, his village, or something similar and it must use poetic language.

but... I doubt that's what we mean here. So It's got me curious too. To those who want to something "epic" or were attempting to, please define epic.

DaFool · #12 Post by **DaFool** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:35 pm

Epic feel: depends on the game. But usually those with fantasy or historical setting.

Epic length: 4 hours (commercial length). Although those above 2 hours total playtime can seem to reach this.

Nafai · #13 Post by **Nafai** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:44 pm

Personally I think of two things when I think of an epic: Large Scope and High Stakes

Scope - that's a matter of quantity, which I'd view as being expressed in the length of the game, the number of locations/characters/plotlines etc.

Stakes - its not technically inherent in the term, and I by no means am being prescriptive, but in stories I view as Epic there is usually a "big picture' that the player affects - the players actions will impact a large number of people, whether they know it or not.

Hence a 4 hour long dating game, taking nothing away from that feat, by itself wouldn't be something I'd personally label as Epic, while something like Elven Relations might, despite a less lengthy play time. Epic of course, doesn't mean necessarily 'better', though I will admit to an affection for such games. (No surprise to those who know what I'm working on

)

dreamer · #14 Post by **dreamer** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:51 pm

ah I see. This is why I'm in favor of "unclickable" events (OOh I coined a new term)

Take a relatively long story, about 5 short chapters long and do the following:

-One line of text per screen (Narcissu used two lines of text and got away with it.)
-Lots of cinematic effects using transitions
-Slow down the text at dramatic moments.
-Tsukihime style use of ellipsis ........................................................................................................................................ hee!
-Use lots of flashbacks of events that you showed in the game itself only this time in black and white.

= Teh epic length!

Enerccio · #15 Post by **Enerccio** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:26 pm

Man, I am only one who selected hentai? XD
Man, I just have to wait for DaFool.

Btw I think we need some GirlXGirl too.

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